Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
Socialize
 

Recent Topics
Topic Replies Last Post
Wedding gift... can someone help me to translate it? 6 2018/6/30 20:50
Barga18
Aomori-Ken 0 2018/6/19 10:27
hanzo-tou
Certificates 0 2018/5/8 4:34
schistkicker
Home Project: Shadowbox 3 2018/4/25 21:44
roufus
Ichiba 0 2018/2/21 1:18
Dpinga
   All Posts (DuncanMitchell)


« 1 (2) 3 4 5 ... 21 »


Re: the essence of something
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2006/9/1 12:02
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 215
Offline
Quote:

JeffMueller wrote:
Quote:
My point is that I doubt that Hatsumi-sensei would tell him something just to trick him or test him.


You are right... probably not to maliciously trick him. But he sure likes to tell people what they want to hear!


I hear this a lot too but it is in the line of the "he just gives you rope to hang yourself with", "he just says things to test you" etc in that they don't want to acknowedge something Hatsumi-sensei has said that flies in the face of how they view things should be. I think most of the time is just plain misinterpretation and/or misunderstanding.

On the statement that "Anything that works is Bujinkan" I really think it is consistant with other things Hatsumi-sensei has said. You are claiming he is just telling people what they want to hear but could it be that you are just disregarding something that you don't want to hear?

Quote:

JeffMueller wrote:
Quote:
The original question was "What constitutes Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu" - is the reality of this that it is just a mishmash of Hatsumi Ryu that has departed from "the basic precepts of that the Bujinkan arts are founded on" which it the kata of the nine schools?


No, I think it is the followers of the Bujinkan who teach before they are even actual students is what has departed from it.


That is an easy blanket statement to make. Of course I only know Japan and Australia but I can only think of a very few isolated cases of this in either country now. The different shihan in Japan have different focusses but I don't see people teaching before they are actually students there.

As for Australia we have lots of fine instructors like:
Ed Lomax, David Hamden, Jason Sargent, Scott Schulze, Peter White, Gillian Booth, Frances Haynes, John Cantor, Nicholas Lynn, Andrew Beattie, Scott Abercrombie, Glen Constable, Paul De Silva, Greg Alcorn, Tony Graf, Geoff Smith, Andrew Macdonald, Andrew Buckley, Jamie McAnnich, Greg Hinks Warren Cross, Tim Bathurst, Craig Guest, Gary Bailey, Andrew Jarvis, Chris West, Rick Owens, Duncan Stewart, Dale Heers ... and more

Of course opinions vary but I would say all of these guys can teach you a lot about "What constitutes Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu" and have all been students before they were teachers.

My point here is I read these posts by people pushing the idea that the Bujinkan is rotten except for a very few but the reality (in Japan and in my country) is far from it. We are doing very well and have a right to be positive.

Posted on: 2007/11/2 16:54
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: the essence of something
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2006/9/1 12:02
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 215
Offline
Quote:

Papa-san wrote:
I get confused on that too Samuel, the "that's not Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu" thing. My response from Dr Hatsumi was that ANYTHING that works is Bujinkan. That is the test, does it work!


Quote:

TenChiJin Guy wrote:
Soke's statement is rope. Find a tree and make a noose if you want. I will just coil it up and put it in my bag....


I doubt Hatsumi-sensei made the statement in order to give Ed enough rope to hang himself with.

Ed was made one of the original 15th dans by Hatsumi-sensei. I have also seen Ed and soke interact together and acted as interpreter as well has listening to soke talk about Ed while he wasn't present. My point is despite Daniel's own dislike and/or fundamental disagreement with his ideas that I for one can at least bear witness to the fact that Hatsumi-sensei holds him in very high regard.

My point is that I doubt that Hatsumi-sensei would tell him something just to trick him or test him. I have often heard people say that something Hatsumi-sensei has said was just to give them enough rope to hang themselves with but I tend to think people say this because they don't want to acknowledge something Hatsumi-sensei says or does that flies in the face of their own opinion.

I believe the statement was made because it is pretty consistent (and in some cases the same) as many other statements soke has made.

So assuming now that Hatsumi-sensei said it - and was sincere - is it time for people to show their hand?

Has Hatsumi-sensei gone off the rails and departed from "the basic precepts of that the Bujinkan arts are founded on" ??

The original question was "What constitutes Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu" - is the reality of this that it is just a mishmash of Hatsumi Ryu that has departed from "the basic precepts of that the Bujinkan arts are founded on" which it the kata of the nine schools?

What is Hatsumi-sensei teaching in his classes? The essence of Budo Taijutsu which we should be practicing, some high level - like Ri from "Shu Ha Ri" or is he now just "an old man pottering around his shed" ??

Is the top level of the Bujinkan populated by people who understand Budo Taijutsu or mediocrity? If so what is Hatsumi-sensei's reasoning?

Is the essence in Hatsumi-sensei's kuden or the densho?

Is Hatsumi-sensei the reason you're in the Bujinkan or do you just view him as an eccentric annoyance in your study with a shihan who teaches the correct kata and the two standard henka?

I'm just trying to call out the real agenda's and base opinions of a few of the members here - a couple in particular. I just view an undercurrent that is being used to shout down other opinions while not being completely honest regarding their own. I'm not holding my breath in expecting honesty though.

Is it time to put your cards on the table?

Posted on: 2007/11/2 10:29
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: the essence of something
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2006/9/1 12:02
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 215
Offline
Quote:

noname wrote:
what constitutes painting? perhaps simply a brush used to apply a prepared liquid to a surface.

what constitutes charcoal drawing? perhaps a piece of charcoal used on as surface.

what constitutes drawing in general? perhaps an instrument used on a surface.

so I pose the question, what constitutes Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu?



I think a successful outcome in either painting, charcoal drawing, pen / pencil drawing etc involves a blend of a small degree of technical competence, an intuitive understanding of composition and spatial relationships and the ability to put down on paper only that which is necessary (knowing what to omit).

A brilliant artist has the confidence to make a large brush stroke across the surface in a bold move. Such a person can squiggle just three or four lines on a page to create a form. He knows how to deceive the viewers mind into seeing a form in the space where there is nothing.

Posted on: 2007/11/1 12:15
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Hehehe...
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2006/9/1 12:02
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 215
Offline
Well from the Tenchijin (with my bad translation):

拳は先ず正しく急所に当てる稽古より始まり、拳の変化、拳体一致の意を悟る。これは躰構の項にて熟達すべきものなり、古来にては柱に藁を巻きその上に布を巻いて拳を鍛えたり。拳体一如我れ拳となるを得るべし。
With strikes, first start by training to strike kyusho correctly, then variations of strikes, then the revelation of the meaning of “the strike and body in unison”. This is the body kamae’s main point which is to be mastered. In olden times, straw was wrapped around a post and over that cloth was wrapped and strikes were forged. You must obtain the feeling of becoming the strike with your whole body with Ken Tai Ichi-Jo “The Strike and Body as One”

Quote:

Nicky690 wrote:
There may be traditional methods but that does not mean they are either right or effective. This given the great deal of knowledge developed in recent years on exercise.


I think this is a very important point and I would add to it development in technology.

There are various kinds of makiwara. The one written about in the Tenchijin etc was probably the best for it’s time but I think now that heavy bags (and the rigs to hold them) are relatively cheap and easily obtainable and supercede the makiwara.

The problem with makiwara is that they are (usually) solid and force you to stop rather than hit through. Those karate makiwara are often mounted on a flexible board but you have to set up the angle to hit it correctly and don’t have the freedom of movement of a bag.

Conditioning the “fist” and trying to develop callous is unimportant in my opinion, as the Ten Chi Jin says you need to be training your strikes to get that chain going which uses your whole body.

To go further … many styles of kung fu use a lot of fist conditioning methods against hard objects. Compare the strikes of these people compared to the strike of a boxer who has trained hitting a bag with hand wraps and gloves. Who hits harder?

So I believe in training strikes often (if not every day) on a heavy bag of suitable weight.

Also as mentioned earlier rolling walnuts in your hand or those “Tai Chi Balls” (Hatsumi-sensei uses these sitting at home) is important to keep flexibility and movement in your knuckles.

Posted on: 2007/10/25 10:09
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Hehehe...15
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2006/9/1 12:02
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 215
Offline
Quote:

JamesGarcia wrote:
I thought you were inferring "Randori Geiko'" did not exist of which many state this... With sticks or not does not change it's importance or practice within the Bujinkan.


But even when I lived in Japan I remember Hatsumi-sensei having "Randori Keiko" which was pretty much just everyone standing around someone and attacking with a single attack one at a time.

I don't know how fierce it was in the old days but I do think it's more important to concentrate and practice what we are told to do now rather than basing it on an interpretation of training in the "old days" that we weren't personally involved in.

I'm not saying you are doing this but I think there are many Bujinkan Shidoshi who claim "my dojo is training as they did in the old days" and proceed with some idealised version that they have interpreted from old stories even though they weren't actually there at the time. In my opinion all they are doing is going off down their own road.

I think training should always be based on your own experience and current training - that is why we have to go to Japan every year.

Posted on: 2007/10/22 16:14
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Hehehe...
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2006/9/1 12:02
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 215
Offline
I acknowledge Hatsumi-sensei has used sparing as a tool but even in the old days (from the conversation I had about it with a shihan who has been training since the beginning) it was used infrequently as a test for students. Also I have only seen or heard it done with taijutsu or ken - haven't heard anything about sparing with sticks.

If you reread my post you will see I said I wasn't aware of any stick sparing done in the Bujinkan. Hatsumi-sensei trains frequently in stick fighting but I am not aware of him sparing with it - just technical training. So unless your point is that any sparing experience is enough and that it doesn't have to be specific to the weapon I think you misread my point.

Posted on: 2007/10/22 15:37
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: High/Low Probability Techniques
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2006/9/1 12:02
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 215
Offline
Quote:

Shinoobie wrote:
What I mentioned earlier that I would be unlikely to use was omote gyaku dori, not omote gyaku.


These are the same thing. I think you are talking about the Kihon Happo Kata that was called something like "Omote Gyakku Ken Sabaki Gata" in the old Ninpo Taijutsu book?

Posted on: 2007/10/22 14:30
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Hehehe...2
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2006/9/1 12:02
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 215
Offline
James, you seem to have misread my post.

Posted on: 2007/10/22 13:37
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: High/Low Probability Techniques
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2006/9/1 12:02
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 215
Offline
Quote:

dseago wrote:
The whole approach is a very low-percentage way of thinking about budo.


I liked this statement.

If you go up to someone, grab their hand and try to put on omote gyakku you have an almost zero chance of succeeding. From my experience even people who have been training at a normal pace for a year will only be able to get omote gyakku to work a low percentage of time. A person who has done a lot of work studying this waza from every angle, understands how to set it up and most importantly knows when to attempt it will catch it a high percentage of the time.

Why bother at all? Because if you can get it to work it's an excellent technique that locks the opponent's wrist, elbow, shoulder and spine to deliver them side on at your feet without having to commit your arms any deeper than your wrists.

So I believe a lot of budo is about transforming low percentage to high percentage. This is why we practice.

Posted on: 2007/10/22 13:33
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Test testiness
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2006/9/1 12:02
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 215
Offline
Quote:

TenChiJin Guy wrote:
the endless catch 22 is perpetual...


Still trying to work out the maths behind this ....

Quote:

TenChiJin Guy wrote:
Besides - how do you end up with bad instructors in the system to start with?


I'm a bad instructor now. When I started teaching in 1995 I was a worse than bad instructor.
Hopefully though I'm an improving instructor - maybe.

I got into the system when I moved back from Japan and opened a dojo because I wanted to practice what I had been learning. As bad as I was if I didn't start until I was a good instructor then I wouldn't even be a bad practitioner - I wouldn't even be training.

So I do my best and now a couple of others who trained with me have started their own dojo and despite their limitations are doing their best too.

The good thing is you don't have to worry about bad instructors who are going nowhere - because you can just train with the good ones (or at least the ones who are going somewhere)


Posted on: 2007/10/18 17:54
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer



 Top
« 1 (2) 3 4 5 ... 21 »




Today's Sponsor