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Re: You do not need to fear the Gracies anymore !!!
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Do-jime is not the same thing as the guard --- further explanation.

I described the "most basic strategies" in using the guard as a bit of an explanation for those who know nothing about the subject. Fighting from the guard, and passing the guard for that matter, are quite complex subjects worthy of many years of study for any student of grappling. The two examples I gave, the triangle choke and the arm bar, are from my understanding the most basic and often the first two a grappling student will learn. Most people in the Bujinkan will know of them thus I gave them as an example of the sorts of things the guard is used for and the sort of thing I have never seen done in the Bujinkan. I believe that the fact that these are a basic in one style but absent in another demonstrates a fundamental difference.

The only tactics I have seen soke use from Do-jime are those which do not give the opponent access to his groin. Some of these overlap with various grappling tactics but as you are not using what I would call the "guard" I can't see how it is the same.

The only "guard pass" I saw while in Japan was keeping the balance back (to avoid being swept, choked or arm bared), digging the elbows into the thighs to create space and using the hand to crush the balls, separate the legs, keeping the legs open with elbow and knee control and slam punches into the groin.

Posted on: 2003/2/21 10:32
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Re: Mantra/ Religious Warrior Poetry
村長 :: Sonchou
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Look at the book of Psalms in the Old Testament. Its chock full of poems and prayers for victory in battle, protection against enemies, etc. Way too many to list here...

Psalm 91 is a good one...

Shawn

Posted on: 2003/2/21 10:29
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Re: Mantra/ Religious Warrior Poetry
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For ye, I am he who walks through the valley of Shadows,

Though I fear not for the Lord is my shepard


I`m not a Christian, but a friend of mine in the US Army had a variation of that tatooed on his shoulder...

Posted on: 2003/2/21 8:59
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"Death From Within!"
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Re: Christianity and the Bujinkan
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Ninjaman wrote:
- As I perceive it, the Bujinkan has to do with what it means to be a human being. Just like any philosophy or religion. I think the "spirit" of this art floats in time, and that different people try to explain it according to their beliefs in a certain age. -

I can't help but agree with this statement. Whenever I think about, or discuss a topic like this that attempts to reconcile religions, cultures and the Bujinkan, I invariably refer to something that Soke wrote in "Essence of Ninjutsu". He said something along the lines that a person didn't need culture or religion but that the bigger ones heart, the more one could accept.

That human beings are human beings throughout time leads me to the idea that religions are cultural modes of expressing the 'spirit' that Ninjaman spoke of. That Japan would have developed a method of discovering that 'spirit' based upon it's combat arts really doesn't surprise me. After all, it's the feeling and not the forms that are of ultimate importance. Perhaps if we find offense between religions then it's because we really don't understand their essence yet...

Sleiman Azizi

Posted on: 2003/2/21 8:44
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Gracies
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I would also like to point out that, just because a Gracie fights one way in the Ring, doesnt mean they fight that way on the street. The Gracies have there background firmly rooted in street fighting as well as JuiJutsu. Like how we pratice Randori with each other, and how we would really apply taijutsu in the "real" moment of need.

Not to mention, they do have something most Bujinkan members dont, they are tough as nails and because they fight in the ring, they are confident at using the majority of there skills at full speed and contact. (Though I do agree the UFC has too many prohibitive rules to call it "real" fighting).

It all comes down to the person, not the art.

My 2 yen,

Posted on: 2003/2/21 8:08
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re
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Quote:

akaoni wrote:
So we don't use the "guard" position? What do you call do-jime with the legs?
I'm sure you have trained sakuhi from Koto-ryu.
And Fubi from Shinden Fudo-ryu dakentaijutsu.


Do-jime is not the same as the guard used in BJJ. In grappling the guard is a defensive position in which the most basic strategies involve gaining control of their upper body (sankaku jime or arm bar) with your back on the ground. Any variations I have seen in Japan with soke have involved creating space for kicking, knocking the opponent back for leg control or sweeping to get above the opponent. The "space" is different.

Quote:

akaoni wrote:
What about the kata calling for "umanori" in Shinden Fudo-ryu and (I believe) Takagi Yoshin ryu? What is that if not a "mount" position [umanori = literally "mounting a horse" or "riding a horse"]?


From my experience in both, the style of mount you want to use is very different from the one used in grappling styles.

Quote:

akaoni wrote:
Can all of these be held to the test of "multiple attackers against weapons?" I would also say that none of them work against an assault rifle at 30 yards. Is that any less fair?


You missed the most important elements: timing, distancing, balance control etc
Hastumi-sensei once said that if you gain an understanding of these your can win even in a nuclear war.

Posted on: 2003/2/21 8:02
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Kumogakure Ryu?
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At what rank does Hatsumi teach Kumogakure Ryu? Is it true that he used to teach it more openly awhile back?

Posted on: 2003/2/21 8:01
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Muramatsu
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I'm looking for information about this man. Everbody seems to know things about Manaka and Tanemura. What about Muramatsu? From the info I have gotten his training methods are different and hear he is really good. Does anyone what he focuses on in his dojo. I would just like to know a liitle more about his background.

Posted on: 2003/2/21 7:57
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Re: You do not need to fear the Gracies anymore !!!
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Duncan,

So we don't use the "guard" position? What do you call do-jime with the legs?

I'm sure you have trained sakuhi from Koto-ryu.
And Fubi from Shinden Fudo-ryu dakentaijutsu.

What about the kata calling for "umanori" in Shinden Fudo-ryu and (I believe) Takagi Yoshin ryu? What is that if not a "mount" position [umanori = literally "mounting a horse" or "riding a horse"]?

In the Bujinkan I have encountered various overall strategic goals in different taijutsu exercises such as:
* escape
* restrain the adversary
* hurt the adversary
* knockdown or takedown/throw the adversary
* do whatever is necessary to protect life

I have seen this accomplished tactically through such means as:
* strikes (e.g. kosshi sanpo)
* grappling (e.g. torite goho, and the above mentioned "guard" and "mount" techniques)
* taihenjutsu (e.g. tonso kata)
* all of the above with weapons
* various combinations of all of the above

Can all of these be held to the test of "multiple attackers against weapons?" I would also say that none of them work against an assault rifle at 30 yards. Is that any less fair?

Posted on: 2003/2/21 6:48
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Mantra/ Religious Warrior Poetry
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Well, I wasent sure right where to put this post. So here it is. I will move it upon request.

I know for some Religion can be a bit of a touchy subject, but for me, its always a constant intrest. (PS, Im not trying to convert anyone, lol).

Here is a Shingon (Buddhist) mantra from Fudo Myoo(Acala Vidy√¢r√¢ja) who is

" He is portrayed holding a sword in his right hand and a coiled rope in his left hand. With this sword of wisdom, Acala cuts through deluded and ignorant minds and with the rope he binds those who are ruled by their violent passions and emotions. He leads them onto the correct path of self control."

Nômaku sanmanda bazaradan senda makaroshada sowataya un tarata kanman. (Japanese)

Homage to the all-pervading Vajras! O Violent One of great wrath! Destroy! hûm trat hâm mâm (English)

Many mantra is like good poetry to me. It holds a wonderfull image in your mind.

Does anyone have a good passage from the bible about warriorship and christianity??

Posted on: 2003/2/21 6:36
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