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Re: The many spam posts
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My apologies for not being as frequent here these days, but I also did a big SPAM cleaning last time. I try to get on here at least once per week, but lately it's been more difficult. I will try to do what I can when I can. Too bad we can't fire a virus back to the originating hard drive on these people...

Posted on: 2014/7/18 14:12
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Re: New student requesting some information.
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Quote:

bushranger wrote:
Thanks for your reply Darren, I agree with you between the difference of violence and a fighting to win scenario, though I think you misinterpreted my point.

I was merely suggesting that it is possible that one could have no choice but to fight in a violent scenario, and the attacker could be using mma techniques as his weapon. In this scenario I would expect a well rounded ninja to be well equipped to handle him/her self.

I'm not interested in debating the best fighting style I assure you. I'm more than familiar with life threatening violence, and I am definitely not trying to get myself killed.
Cheers


Please don't take offense to my post, as based on your comments so far, I would have to conclude that you have very minimal if any actual understanding of what art it is we (Bujinkan) train on (and what ninja were). I would also venture to guess you have little to no actual MMA experience. Purely my assumption and I apologize if I'm wrong.

But, lack of knowledge and experience is not a bad thing. However, you will go batcrap crazy trying to paint people and situations by the arts involved.

For instance, in your example, how would you know the attacker was using MMA techniques? What are MMA techniques? Striking and grappling? Would you be able to tell the difference between an MMA fighter, a Muay Thai fighter, a guy who watches too much UFC on TV and thinks he's the next champ, and a Force Recon Marine fresh back from multiple deployments to the sand box? Won't they all be using forms of striking and grappling?

Would you?

There is no magic bullet, just as (and I hate to bust any bubbles out there) NO ninjas today. Seriously. Curious - what exactly is a "well rounded ninja", anyway?

I don't mean to sound crass or sarcastic and offensive. It's nothing personal against you. But I do believe that it's important to really grasp a solid sense of reality in regards to martial arts and violence and assuming that anybody who trains in Bujinkan arts can be a "well rounded ninja" misses the fundamental point that none of us are ninjas. Never, ever.

Just my total opinion, and I could be wrong, but if anybody honestly believes they are a "ninja", they already slipped off the reality train and fell into the river of self-delusion. They are going to die in real violence, while wondering what happened to all their "ninja" skills.

Look, I get what you are trying to say. You need to train to deal with any threat that comes your way. But, reality is that you can't possibly prepare for EVERY threat, every kind of person, every kind of violence. You train to hit, lock, choke, throw and do all sorts of things to another human being. So do MMA guys, karate guys, judo guys, kung fu guys and all other MA guys. But, so do military guys, terrorists, criminals and other non-MA guys. You will never train against every possible kind of threat.

So, you train in a manner that allows you to ADAPT to as much of the threat as possible with the primary goal of avoiding being on the losing end, starting with never actually being in the threat's line of fire. That's more of how we train in the Bujinkan. It's about adapting, not tit-for-tat technique vs technique. If a guy comes at me with something resembling MMA techniques, I would never even know they were MMA techniques. A fist would be dodged and/or blocked, a take down attempt met with strikes to vital targets while evading and, if still taken down, I would fight as if my life depended on it. That's not anything earth shattering or special to a "well rounded ninja".

That's simple survival.

Anyway, I don't mean to go on and on, but seriously, if you are afraid your training lacks something, then ask your teacher to work that with you. If your fear is still too strong that your training is incomplete, go elsewhere. Either way. But, just understand that I've been down that road and it never, ever, satisfies the doubt. It's just one rabbit hole after another.

Posted on: 2014/3/13 12:52
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Re: New student requesting some information.
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Quote:

bushranger wrote:
Why do you consider mma to be such a different context to real life fights ?

Okay, there are a few rules and gloves, but, it is well within scope of possibilities that you could be cornered, perhaps by an mma fighter, with no else around, in a space about the size of an mma ring. They might not have intent to kill, but to beat you stupid.Much like an mma fight.

In this scenario, should not such a holistic martial art such as ninjutsu be well within its element. What of the ninja who finds himself cornered by the enemy without weapons, perhaps they have all broken, been used.

Beyond the fact a ninja can incorporate any fighting moves, including mma, why do you proclaim this to be comparing to different things.

There have also been ninjutsu in the mma.

And many a street thug is from an mma back ground these days.

Sincerely



If I might offer some opinion and advice, having a sport background, as well as more than my share of dealing with violent people and violent situations...

MMA will give you tools to fight. So would boxing, judo, wrestling, and just about any other sport art. But, here's the rub:

Fighting and violence are not the same things.

Most violence is social violence, predicated by a running of one's mouth and an inability to simply not engage in escalating the situation to physical altercation. If that's what you consider to be "fighting", you've already lost long before any need for fight skills.

Real violence is not two guys squared off going at it. That's fighting, but it's not the most dangerous sort of violence - and it's the easiest to avoid. The most dangerous sort of violence is having your head rammed into the wall while you stand at the urinal taking a whiz. It's having a bottle slam you in the side of the head because some drunk idiot thought you were making eyes at his girlfriend. It's walking into a place and not following "the rules" of the social dynamic that exists there. It's being targeted for an ambush by some kid looking to get that initiation from the gang.

It's not a duel. It's an ambush. It's not on your terms. It's on theirs. You don't know every variable that exists, whether the attacker is armed, high on drugs and/or excited delirium, carrying every form of pathogen (HIV anyone?), and you don't know if he is the real attacker or just the set-up for one or more others who are going to jump in.

And, you don't know if he wants to kill you, injure you or just humiliate you.

So, please, stop with the "this art vs that art" or which art is best for real fighting. That argument is old and, honestly, pointless. When the real crap hits the fan, it's not your art, or who you train with, or how many trophies you have on your wall - it's just you, the adrenaline dump of chemicals that make you "freeze", and your ability to get past that point as quick as possible so you can start to protect yourself and get away.

Training in martial arts really only gives you percentage points in a real violent situation. It's not the answer, only an influence.

Then, there's the issue of protecting others, of not leaving people you care about exposed to danger or collateral damage. What about the predatory nature of those who seek to distract you or take you out simply to get to your significant other, children, or a friend? What if you are the one wearing the "kill me first clothes" (fatigue pants, tight martial arts or MMA shirt, buzzed head, etc)? In a robbery, kidnapping or murder, you might be the one they go for first, but only to remove you from the equation. Think outside the box, in this case, the ring. It's a big world out there where violence is still the most effective form for many to get what they want and they operate on one very basic rule - maximum results with minimal risk.

If you were to ask me, I'd say true ninjutsu is better suited for that scenario than any training where your intent is to stay and fight for the "win". Few guys have died fleeing danger compared to a whole bunch of guys who have died fighting danger. You do the math. Besides, violence starts way before the first strike is launched and if your training isn't hammering in to you an acute awareness of the escalating danger, or unaware (and not accepting) that you are being targeted and set up for an ambush and how to adapt to any of it long before it happens, it's setting you up for a shanking.

You are training to be killed. Or, you are training to get sucked into letting others be killed.

Posted on: 2014/3/13 1:31
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Re: New student requesting some information.
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On a related note, you might find this blog post interesting - a discussion with Nagato Shihan (one of the senior Japanese teachers) on ground fighting (really on all sport martial arts). Keep in mind he, too, was a very accomplished kick boxer and judoka in his younger days...

http://bujinkangard.wordpress.com/201 ... o-shihan-ground-fighting/

Posted on: 2014/1/30 10:07
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Re: New student requesting some information.
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Quote:

Kframe wrote:

I guess, being that I have confidence issues, I try to let other people decide my mind about issues like this.. I need to trust my self and make my own mind. I just fear making a mistake.



Nail that right to your forehead. Every time you start to let others screw with your mind, let that intense pain in your forehead remind you of what is nailed there.

Seriously, you are going to spend your entire training life struggling with what is in your head and what comes out of others' mouths.

That's why Soke keeps saying "Shut Up & Train".

Attach file:



jpg  Shutup&Train.jpg (28.43 KB)
100_52e9a30f64fe1.jpg 367X270 px

Posted on: 2014/1/30 9:55
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Re: New student requesting some information.
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Quote:

Kframe wrote:
On Martial talk it was said in the sparring thread that the methods taught in the ryu ha them selvs are not up to snuff for dealing with modern attacks. I was told that our art is alive and that we adapt our current methods to modern attacks. I was told that was garbage and a lie.

So guys what is the truth of our art? Just looking from the lens of my mma experience I see much that is good and useable. Though I do question our ability to handle someone who doesn't step with each strike, and can deliver them with rapidity. To illustrate his point he said to try using Ichimonji no Kata against a boxers attack from a boxing range.

I take my self defense seriously and I seriously enjoy what im doing. Its just, if what he says is true, I was lied to. So what is the truth?


The truth is simply this (my opinion, of course!):

Many people in the forum-world try to pigeon-hole the Bujinkan into some kind of box, but if any of them would spend any actual time with Soke and/or the Japanese Shihan, they would actually understand that it can't. Comparing the techniques to those used in sports is like comparing pistol shooting events to military combat shooting. Similar? Maybe. Same? No. Is being good at one automatically make you good at the other? No. Yet, both can compliment each other if trained in the right context to each other.

Saying Ichimonji no Kata fails against a boxer's attack is foolishly misunderstanding both the scope and function of Ichimonji no Kata and how a boxer 'attacks'. Boxers operate in a confined area, in a set use of distance, angles and protections (i.e. no kicks, groin shots, etc). They are good at what they do, but even better when the conditions match their skill parameters. Ichimonji no Kata is just that - a kata. It's a set of skills designed to teach specific lessons, the application of which is not limited to the kata itself. For instance, the use of the angles and entry can be utilized in any kind of receive and counter technique. The jodan uke is something universally used, just in different ways. The omote shuto is also universally used and applied different ways. It's the use of the feet, hips and spine that hold the biggest lessons, but again it isn't limited to the kata. It exists in all our taijutsu. Even boxers use some form of it.

In my humble opinion, people make the mistake of taking a kata and thinking that is how everything is done against every kind of situation. That is like trying to fit a square block into every shape of hole. Yet, the lessons in that kata develop the body in certain ways that come out in situations as applicable to the 'need'. Make sense?

If I stood in Ichimonji no Kamae, loading up my back leg, and my opponent suddenly comes in low for a single or double leg takedown, do I just stand there and shift away? Maybe not. Maybe I might jump back into Hicho no Kamae and knee them in the face. Maybe I might do something that looks more like Hira no Kamae from Muto Dori Gata. Maybe I might just do a sprawl and rip his face off with Shitojutsu. Or, maybe I might have already saw this idiot wanted to fight and simply left before it happened.

Many people like to cite Takamatsu Soke as having fought many challenges, testing his skills against other martial artists. Hatsumi Soke writes about some of those challenges, most being very brutal. But, and I am only theorizing as I was not around to witness them, I am pretty certain how he fought those guys looked very different from how he taught in those grainy black and white videos you can find on YouTube. If you asked him what kata he used, he would probably laugh at you. Yet his skills were developed FROM the training in those kata - and he defeated quite a good number of highly skilled men.

If someone with all that fight skill didn't believe in the kata and training his teachers taught him, why on earth would he have taught them to his students, to teach the young Masaaki Hatsumi (who also already had a very strong sports martial arts background) the very same kata you are learning (maybe a bit differently, I don't know), and grant him Sokeship of all 9 of those ryuha?

He could have very easily just dropped all of it and taught something else more suited to competition, like the Gracie family did.

So, are all these naysayers implying that Takamatsu Soke and Hatsumi Soke are idiots and that they know better?

I can hardly contain my laughter...

Posted on: 2014/1/30 9:00
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Re: New student requesting some information.
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Sparring is fine for training, although it can be an inhibitor if it's misplaced in it's importance. Sparring has rules. It's set up between you and another. You "know" what you are facing. In real violence, that isn't the case. Sparring is ok for pressure testing, but don't confuse it with real violence. Social and asocial violence both have no resemblance to sparring. Yet, sparring gives you that physical exertion, the lessons that come from a resistant opponent, and the 'test' of applied techniques. But, keep in mind that it is very limited and, thus, still not close to reality. You can never fully 'test' your training unless you are attacked - for real - and who walks into those scenarios? Today's attackers will hit you when you are sitting on the toilet with your pants around your ankles. They won't face off with you, unless you and him are in a Monkey Dance of chest pounding challenges. At that point, you've already lost, as far as real budo is concerned. So, how to you 'spar' against someone who comes at you when you are weakest, unprepared, maybe intoxicated or holding your child? How do you 'spar' against someone who grabs your wife's butt as you both walk by and then faces off with you with an attitude of "yeah, so, what you gonna do about it"?. You see where I am going. This isn't something that can be really replicated in the dojo, honestly.

But, your dojo training, particularly Bujinkan training, is geared to adapt your body and mind to handle sudden situations. Not all schools train you for the adrenaline cocktail, which is something I believe is missing in many training circles. But, understand that the techniques themselves are designed for real application. It's up to you to find the right teachers who can show you how they fit into the chaos of real violence, to trust them to be there in a pinch when all goes to hell in a handbasket. But, it's also up to you to let go of the doubt and just trust the training, to challenge yourself and keep digging with the right people to train with - those you trust who will challenge you and you can throw down with and 'test' your doubts safely.

Just know that it will still not come close to the real deal. And, the real deal is just as much mental/emotional as it is physical.

Posted on: 2014/1/22 14:22
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Re: New student requesting some information.
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Good for you, Joshua, for actually testing things out with your teacher (and yourself)! What you discovered, that feeling and experience, is something you would never had gotten by theory, thinking and online chatting.

At the end of the day, it's the direct, personal experience of this art that will prove your best teacher - and where all the secrets (about the art and yourself) are discovered.

Keep going!

Posted on: 2014/1/20 9:52
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Re: New student requesting some information.
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Joshua, take it from a guy who has known violence and violent people intimately. Training is good, but can only take you so far. In the end, it is you and only you that makes the difference (and a whole lot of luck).

Real violence is something that goes far beyond the dojo, far beyond all the kata, the art, the history, and the romanticized fiction that defines much of what martial arts are today.

Even highly trained police officers and soldiers freeze in combat. Freezing up, losing control and going 'blank' is something we all can experience, no matter our training, and even if we have faced similar violent situations before. The adrenaline cocktail dump you get from it can have varying effects. But, solid training should ingrain motor skills in you that click on when the brain clicks off. That's what a good teacher should build in you.

Whether those ingrained, subconscious motor skills are tactically 'smart' or 'correct' for the situation is something entirely different. When under sudden, extreme stress and fear (i.e. the adrenaline cocktail dump), we can sometimes fall back to old training habits which make no sense for the situation, or we may go through motions which were drilled into us under an entirely different context.

For instance, there is a case from the 70's when bank robbers engaged in a firefight with FBI agents who were taking cover behind their vehicles and returning fire. Unfortunately, a few of the agents were shot (some killed). In their pockets were brass casings. This was due to the fact that in their firearms training, they were drilled to 'police up' their brass, so as to not leave brass casings all over the range.

Well, as you can see, when under the stress of a real firefight, they continued the same practice without thought - because that's what their hardwiring made them do.

Sometimes, people who have survived violence will also talk about the weirdest things popping in their heads (a memory of some unrelated thing, a particular song, etc).

The point to all this is that real violence is chaotic and unpredictable. You have NO idea how you would really act and, if you did find out (I hope not!), there's no guarantee you'd respond the same way again.

Stop pressuring yourself. You find the training enjoyable, right? Then relax, train your @$$ off and enjoy it. Whatever is absorbed into your hard wiring is what most likely will come out in a pinch - and solid Bujinkan training will give you some very effective skill sets to drill into your hard wiring. But, what is most likely is that you will never have to actually use it anyway and the stress and worry you are experiencing is doing you more harm than the slight possibility of a violent encounter.

As our Soke admonishes us: "Gambatte" (keep going/training)

Posted on: 2014/1/18 9:59
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Re: TAJ JIUTSU PUNCHES.
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Punching is not so black and white, as the Bujinkan is not a school - it is comprised of techniques from many different schools. The basic "tsuki" is what most people consider to be the "Bujinkan style punch". However, if you watch Soke, you see he strikes many different ways. Even in ryuha kata, there are many ways to punch, using different parts of the fist, etc.

So, are there 'jabs'? Yes. Are there 'hooking punches'? Yes. Are there both horizontal and vertical fudoken? Yes. It all depends on the purpose and matching the right weapon to the right target. Does that mean the Bujinkan is a striking art, a grappling art, or both? No. And yes.

It's important to understand the history of these arts. Punching someone in armor and punching while wearing armor are both very different than punching and being punched while not wearing armor. Punching in a melee is different than punching as a one on one scenario. Punching with a hand that has been conditioned through repeated hitting into harder and harder targets is a different punch than one which hasn't been developed. Punching for sports is different than punching for life and death survival.

If you study the foundation of the Bujinkan training, you'll see how there's room to develop punches and play with different punching dynamics. There is no set "Bujinkan punch", really. But, the base forms are there for specific reasons, so I encourage you to understand them first, then explore how they apply to (and against) different punching styles. But, don't lose the greater significance of the base forms in the process, because their lessons go farther than just learning how to punch.

I hope that helps in some small way...

Posted on: 2014/1/17 9:29
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