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Re: Read Kacem's New Book(Very disappointing!) Proof wa?
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I guess we have to accept what is out there and be thankful that we now at least know more than before.


SkuggVarg,

That is what I mean. You don't have to accept it simply because it is out there. You are suppose to evaluate the information and if something doesn't seem right then you look for information to resolve your suspicion. If you can't find that information you shouldn't just believe it is true. (Blind Faith?)

Posted on: 2010/7/10 9:45
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Re: Read Kacem's New Book(Very disappointing!) Proof wa?
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Dear JWillz79,

Since you bring it up. Mr Zoughari has put down a considerable amount of time and effort into researching the history of the schools. He himself strongly beliefs they are legit. Do you think he is lying too? Or perhaps he didnt do good research? Im interested in hearing your opinion on the matter.

Regards / Skuggvarg


Skuggvarg,

Have you ever heard of the term 'Escalating Commitment'? I am sure you like Tom are aware that just because someone wants to strongly believe something doesn't make it true. The same thing can be said about a large number of people believing something doesn't make it true. This is why I keep using religion as a prime example.

Do I believe he is lying? I don't know. Do he like others have an invested interested that Togakure Ryu is made to believe to be authentic? Yes!!!!

Why? Think about all those who have invested time and money on the premise they were studying from the last ninja lineage.

Hatsumi, Shihan and even Kacem makes large sums of money teaching this material. It was probably the reason for him to be become a PhD to live in Japan. Would you want to be the one who ruined a good thing?

You also know when people have a bias towards something that they only look for things they believe support their opinion. Which in the book isn't even a lot of support.
Why didn't he cover the letters written by Takamatsu in the Kuki family asking to create a Ninjutsu school?

Do you think many folks would feel like fools, embarrassed or betrayed if they found out tomorrow that the only authentic schools are Takagi, Kuki, Shinden and Gikan? How would they view Hatsumi, their instructors and their training?

Basically, because of his invested interest in it being true I don't believe he would tell us if there was strong evidence showing it was not completely authentic or Takamatsu recreated a dead school.

Is it lying? Is it just not telling the whole story?

Posted on: 2010/7/7 15:46
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Re: Read Kacem's New Book(Very disappointing!) Proof wa?
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RJHIII wrote:

I will be taking a leave for a while, but just to let you know I never had banning powers from the get go. I'll I can do as a mod is really get rid of spam and delete or edit posts if necessary.

I have no real power on this board or in the Bujinkan and that suits me just fine.




Really? That is not what this says:


Quote:
Dear jwills79,


You have been successfully registered at Kutaki no Mura using user name of "jwills79".
You are welcome to visit Kutaki no Mura at: http://www.kutaki.org/

First - PLEASE READ THE FAQ BEFORE REGISTERING! IF YOU HAVE NOT READ THE FAQ AT THIS POINT, PLEASE GO BACK AND DO SO NOW BEFORE PROCEEDING! YOUR POST(S) OR COMPLETE USER ACCOUNT MAY BE DELETED WITHOUT WARNING AS A RESULT OF YOUR FAILURE TO MAKE YOURSELF AWARE OF KUTAKI GUIDELINES BY READING THE FAQ.

While the administrators and moderators of Kutaki no Mura will attempt to remove or edit any generally objectionable material as quickly as possible, it is impossible to review every message. Therefore you acknowledge that all posts made to this site express the views and opinions of the author and not the administrators, moderators or webmaster (except for posts by these people) and that Kutaki no Mura cannot be liable for any objectionable content.

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Quote:

jwills79 I wish the you best of luck, hope you find a teacher.


You too, take care.

Posted on: 2010/7/6 0:55
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Re: Disturbing trend...
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His signature is a result of him thinking someone was out to get him. He thought someone was messing with his account, because he couldn't find stuff and didn't know how to quote something properly. It was when forum also was a bit buggy after an upgrade.

I mentioned it was a good idea to temp-ban him for a bit for failing to provide evidence or sources as well as generally calling everyone stupid again.

Much like what he is doing now.

I still think a temp-ban would be a good idea.

A temp ban for generally not playing well with others would be nice.

I think I might just temp ban myself instead.


RJHIII,

So when you don't like what you here or people disagree with you want to ban folks? LOL!!!!

Please do temp ban yourself. Please don't comeback for a while. Not because we disagree but until you start practicing what you preach.

No hypocrisy
No childish behavior
No attempts at abuse of power
No attempts to criticize others unless you are willing to be criticized

P.S. So there is no merit to my Signature yet you just admitted attempting to get me banned like you did once before? Read the four rules above.



Mark Spada,

So who again doesn't behave like an adult when people disagree with them?

There you go just look at the post before this one. I also have quite a few quotes from you as well.

You should both check yourself.

Posted on: 2010/7/5 15:53
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Re: Read Kacem's New Book(Very disappointing!) Proof wa?
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Keith Weaver,

Oh, I forgot to mention. If you wouldn't have given me your rank and dojo then your question would not have been any less valid.

I hope you see the point.


Quote:


Maybe you could add something constructive to solving the perceived problem jwills79?


Mcronin,

You are grasping at straws. Could you add something constructive to this conversation? Do you agree or disagree? If so, why?



See my point Keith Weaver?

Posted on: 2010/7/5 9:38
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Re: Read Kacem's New Book(Very disappointing!) Proof wa?
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Mr. Wills,

I have been following a lot of your threads on this site and I have some questions. It is not my intention to be sarcastic, nor am I trying to further aggravate an already volatile discussion. I am simply curious for my own information.

1. What is your purpose in calling these things into question? What are you trying to accomplish/gain/achieve by this line of discussion?

2. Since you have seen fit to question the lineage of others (both members of this forum and in absentia), why do you neglect to provide your own specific credentials (academic, professional, martial arts training history)?

3. Being that practicing a particular martial art is akin to practicing a religion in that there is a large amount of faith required that time spent learning/practicing will eventually provide personal/societal benefit and that the practitioner feels that the faith placed in those beliefs is not wasted in the end, why are you calling your own professed beliefs into question? If you do not truly believe these things, why do you practice them? Is this some sort of Ninjutsu Reformation with yourself as Martin Luther nailing your theses to the Kutaki Door in Cyberspace? Or are these simply the act of straw man who enjoys a spirited argument?

4. Do you practice a particular religion? How do you reconcile inaccuracies with the dedicated texts of that faith with the gaps in the historical record?

4. (and this one has been asked before, but I will re-iterate) If Hatsumi-sensei (or Takamatsu-sensei's ghost) were to publicly announce that everything he has taught over the last 50+ years has no historical basis other than that these principles have stood the test of real-life application, would it cause you (or anyone) to end your practice of these arts?

Feel free to respond to these questions either publicly or privately. Confidentiality is assured (by this public statement which, were I to publicly or privately reveal any communication from you would discredit my own trustworthiness), though I assume you will doubt my word on this, though you have no reason to doubt my word.

Thank you for your time,

Keith Weaver, Shidoshi-ho


That is easy. Hopefully this should answer all your questions. Rank has been said countless times on this thread and others that it has very little value. If this true then knowledge and action is all one needs as an identifier, right? It only becomes a problem when folks don't have anything valuable to add to the conversation. RJHIII and Mark Spada are prime examples of when things don't go their way that is what they begin to resort to the name calling and rank questions. Then under the same breathe try to tell someone to act mature. LOL!

I see too much 'blind faith' which is one of the main problems in this organization. Including the topic of this thread, having faith in something or anything without displaying the proper critical thinking needed to really understand it fully.

I see people just accepting an idea at face value without really taking a close look at what it means, or why one believes it. When we look at things we believe with a critical eye, we tend to educate ourselves more about them.

Some of the same folks trying to insult me are the same ones who knowledge about these things can barely fill up a thimble.

Faith without knowledge might be fine for some people, but it certainly isn't going to help them win any credibility.

Lastly, you are trying to use extremes here and asking me to take sides. Unlike, others who trying to say it is all real despite evidence that proves otherwise.

I'm saying some of it isn't what it seems. Which helps me put all these things into better perspective. Even TomD who disagreed with me on Kacem's book agrees with me in apart about the repackaging. He has a scientific background and seems to be a sound thinker. I'm not trying to convert folks but open up their closed minds.

How do think many religious folks would feel if Jesus was simply a prophet and was married with children? It would totally change the game!

This 'blind faith' explains almost all the issues ever discussed on this forum. (rank, ability, etc....) It is also why I posted recently that D_Cecc was right on the money in his last post. He is basically saying the same thing. Check it out.

Posted on: 2010/7/5 8:39
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Re: Disturbing trend...
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RJHIII,

Now that was a decent answer. The rest of the nonsense you said about me is so off base it isn't even funny.

Nice try!

Quote:
Jwills you need to grow up a bit.


I think you need go back and reread your post before making such statements.

If you want to call me immature because of challenging the powers that be, asking the difficult questions and standing up for the things I believe are true then you just proved truth behind D_CECC earlier statement yet again.


Quote:
Your criticism carries no weight, either.

So why don't you take your own advice and piss off?


- Mark Spada



Mark Spada,

The more you post the sillier you look. Even those who don't agree with me are commenting about your stupidity. You are comedy relief!

LOL!


P.S. READ MY SIGNATURE!

Posted on: 2010/7/5 1:00
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Re: Disturbing trend...
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RJhIII

I told you it isn't an issue. What part of it isn't an issue do you not understand?


If it isn't an issue then man up and answer the question.

You have no problem talking big and calling people out when it concerns others like PapaSan, Van Donk or even me.

Now you are putting your tail between your legs and asking for mercy when the pitchforks are aimed at you.

You can't handle the heat?

What a WUSSY!!!

Quote:
I know I am but what are you!!!
Buger face! Poopy head!

So's your old Man!! These are things better said on PMs as was attempted earler.

The reflection must be ugly.

Marty


Maybe you are right but we all don't view the world through your eyes. Criticism of others can be a form of deception. That goes for you as well us.

In the words of the magnificent RJHIII
Quote:
knock it off


Your criticism carries no weight so scoot along.


Posted on: 2010/7/4 9:46
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Re: Read Kacem's New Book(Very disappointing!) Proof wa?
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If you don't see the point then nothing more can be said about the subject. You don't have a teacher... That's sad really, but explains a lot.


Once again, avoiding the topic of the thread because you have little to say. You have no point!

Posted on: 2010/7/4 9:23
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Re: Disturbing trend...
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There is a thread already on Kutaki that discusses what happen. Search through the site for it. Seriously it isn't an issue. You are reading into things that aren't there. So knock it off or go ask him about it.


You are the one on this thread making criticisms. No one cares about the old thread. I am asking you how you feel about his role in it now.

Avoiding the issue makes you appear more and more like a hypocrite with every post.

Posted on: 2010/7/3 22:37
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