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   All Posts (DuncanMitchell)


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Re: The concept of enough
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Quote:

JeffMueller wrote:
I pretty much feel that any actual conversation about training needs to occur in person on the tatami. The rest is just a big waste...


And this is why you never conduct a conversation about training on kutaki, only "in person on the tatami" ?

Posted on: 2007/11/7 14:59
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Re: The concept of enough
Kutaki Postmaster
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I'm just surprised people in glass houses are so willing to throw stones.

I assume now you've changed your previous view in appealing that kutaki is damaging the Bujinkan and should be closed down?

Posted on: 2007/11/7 14:36
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Re: There seems to be a thread missing
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Quote:

D_Cecc wrote:
Quote:

Zenigata wrote:

Shawn Gray is the owner of this board in Japan and as such is also bound by Japanese law. He could be sued for libel or arrested for allowing anything on the board that violates Japanese law.


What a bizarre scare tactic.


You are taking my quote out of context which is that the owner of the board does have responsibility for it's content as he would have to be legally (if they did allow illegal content to be posted).

Quote:

D_Cecc wrote:

Now this is a strawman. Has anyone, ever, posted anything that violates Japanese law?


Well, yes. It's just that the kutaki admin has usually dealt with it. Examples I have seen include using the forum to physically threaten an individual in Japan. Slander / libel against individuals, companys by posting false accusations against them. Maybe breaches of copywrite laws by using the forum to advertise bootleg material?

Quote:

D_Cecc wrote:

How does this relate to the conversation?
It doesn't really.


It relates in making the point that the owner is responsible for it's content and therefore must decide on a moderation policy. Post on the forum are not solely the responsibility of the poster so anyone that posts something here that it may be removed.

Posted on: 2007/11/7 14:07
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Re: The concept of enough
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When enough is enough why not just walk away? Isn't that the mature approach?

If I'm at a party and someone is trying to niggle me and get up my nose I don't have to have a shouting match with him or a fight - I can just go home.

If you don't feel like kutaki is providing you with it's stated goal of being "dedicated to the Bujinkan martial arts of Masaaki Hatsumi Soke, and to the spirit of cooperation and friendship in the Bujinkan community" then I think it probably time to leave.

Posted on: 2007/11/7 12:38
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Re: There seems to be a thread missing
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Quote:

D_Cecc wrote:
Actually it only represents the opinions of the individuals who choose to post here, IMO.


This isn't actually true.

If this was a magazine or newsletter you would expect submissions to be evaluated and/or edited. The author of the article holds a degree of responsibility what what he writes but so does the media that publishes it.

Shawn Gray is the owner of this board in Japan and as such is also bound by Japanese law. He could be sued for libel or arrested for allowing anything on the board that violates Japanese law. In addition if something is allowed to remain on the board and he is called up by soke or one of the shihan to explain - it will be him and not the poster or the moderators that will be held responsible.

So in reality no-one has the right to post whaterever they want. Just because it is easy to publish to kutaki doesn't give anyone some additional rights of free speech.

I'm not saying the post in question violated any law or would be called up on any grounds but a line has to be drawn in the sand somewhere and it was drawn there.

What angers me a bit is whenever moderaters try to do their job how everyone jumps on them and complains. I certainly don't agree with every piece of moderation here (usually more what is allowed to stay) but I don't like the idea of complaining and attacking the moderators for every decision.

These sorts of threads and opinions are, from my experience, usually designed to bully, push, pressure and harass the moderators into not doing their job as they believe it should be performed. I know this from my own experience moderating other forums.

If you still aren't happy, don't participate here, or start your own forum and take all the financial, legal and political responsibility associated with that.

Anyway, neither party seemed happy with the desicion to remove the thread - so that probably proves it was a good one.

Posted on: 2007/11/7 12:12
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Re: There seems to be a thread missing
Kutaki Postmaster
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Quote:

noname wrote:
i'm confused.....what, exactly, has transpired?.....



_MSC_CLICK_TO_OPEN_IMAGE
It's all retard crap special olymipcs everyones a winner bum poo wee ...
And this old fool is stating passive aggressive, double dictifook , straw man junior highschool crap.


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Young upstart has surely mastered internet agument technique using many wikipedia links but I invite you to face my flying guillotine if you dare. Bwahahahahahahahaha


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Hello All,
I'm closing this down. Now put your hand on your heart and answer: do you really believe that this whole fracas and this passionate challenge thing and the avalanche it would have started serves the good of the members of this board? The good of the Bujinkan? The good of the friendship and cooperative attitude?
And you do not have to be a Hippie to answer with "no".

Posted on: 2007/11/7 10:08
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Re: There seems to be a thread missing
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Quote:

Cuthalion wrote:
I personally voted for removing the thread - not because I think someone should get away from the responsibility of his words, but because I seriously believe that it already does not support the good of the whole community of this bulletin board - in fact, it can be very harmful.


I applaude the decision of the moderators - in fact if I were a moderator here I would be far less tolerant to some of the posts here.

This is a purely Bujinkan message board and as such represents the Bujinkan in it's own way. If read from the outside it affects how we are viewed.

In my opinion if kutaki is anything more than being "dedicated to the Bujinkan martial arts of Masaaki Hatsumi Soke, and to the spirit of cooperation and friendship in the Bujinkan community" then it should be shut down. Problems between people cannot be solved on a message board.

I think it's a shame the old karma system here was removed. It may have been far from perfect and people complained about it at the time but things are worse for it's removal (in my own opinion).

Posted on: 2007/11/7 8:59
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Re: the essence of something
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I really liked your post John.

Quote:

jgauntt wrote:
In almost any human activity of import, the struggle to A.)define original intent and B.) capture its essence in a way that replicates or scales inevitably leads to factions, which eventually lead to solidified curriculums that are logically consistent but also far removed from that original intent. How else explain the multitude of Buddhist sects, Christian denominations, esoteric strains of Jewish thought, and different schools of Islam to name a few.


Hopefully by the end of this thread once we work out out to distill and unify the essence of the Bujinkan we can move on to solve all religious and political difference throughout the world.

Unfortunately, I think this ultimate answer to all the worlds problems may have something to do with Elvis - which I have suspected all along.


Posted on: 2007/11/6 12:20
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Re: the essence of something
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First just a clarification.

A couple of people objected to me offering only two extreme options in my questioning which is fair enough. This misunderstanding is due to my bad writing in failing to express myself accurately. What I intended to offer on each question was two outer extremes and expected people to answer with where they lay between those extremes.

To my next point (going back to the original question), I view the answer as varying greatly depending where you stand on things and therefore understanding where people stand is fundamental to understanding their opinion or argument.

I see it a bit like the political world (since we are having our federal election in Australia at the moment). One way of looking at it may be considering it as the political factions of the right and left if we give them different designations. I would divide it into five but would say its a sliding scale between each faction.

First it the fringe. These guys I would consider Bujinkan by name only. An example would be a guy that visited my dojo from an eastern european country who had never even seen and of the techniques from kihon happo. When asked what they did he just talked about lots of sparing and para-military stuff. The fringe I consider off the scale because they have gone in a completely different direction. Usually these guys have little or no contact with Japan or anyone inside the Bujinkan outside their own group.

Next is the far left. These guys are known by some a the hippie-kan. They place less importance on waza and almost never do a kata but go deeply into concepts of the feeling and essence. Very open to outside influences and allow people to find their own directions. Training will revolve less around specific skills but trying to find things for yourself based on concepts.

Centre Left. Where I would say Hatsumi-sensei and most of the shihan I train with sit. Stress the importance of good basics but are more conceptual in their outlook than having an adherence to strict form or kata. Kata are more often viewed as a launching pad for henka and a study of taijutsu.

Centre Right. Some other Japanese shihan sit here. Stress the importance of good basics and believe in the importance of performing kata correctly. Believes in the importance of the order of kata and the physical perfection over conceptual understanding. Believes henka as something to be perfected after the basic kata and waza are mastered.

Far Right. Completely disregard anything beyond the physical perfection of waza and kata.

Now where you stand on this scale (as in politics) will greatly affect how you view other opinions. The far left and far right will both consider each other completely off the rails. The centre left and centre right will more likely accept each others differences but (for example) the centre right will view the far left with distain as the centre left - while sympathetic to the far left will view the far right as being off.

What I am not talking about here is quality of budo as that can vary greatly between each group but a different matter of training perspective. I would acknowledge that these perspectives exist in the Bujinkan and their existance (outside of the fringe) is actually a good thing.

In my opinion overall quality can only be worked towards once we can get beyond these basic differences in training perspective and look for quality which is outside these influences and more towards what the "essence" actually is.

These politcal differences aren't solved by everyone shouting at each other, pushing their own opinons down people's throats or just shutting yourself off from everyone outside those of your same perspective. I think it this sort of thing that causes overall quality to drop.

Posted on: 2007/11/6 10:11
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Re: What is the "Hidden Door"?
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Togakure Ryu is named after the place Togakure (Togakushi) in Nagano. It's called "Hidden Door" because the sun goddess Amaterasu hid herself in a cave there and sealed the door shut with a giant rock.

You can read the story here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amaterasu

Posted on: 2007/11/6 8:56
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