Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
Socialize
 

Recent Topics
Topic Replies Last Post
Certificates 0 5/8 4:34
schistkicker
Home Project: Shadowbox 3 4/25 21:44
roufus
Ichiba 0 2/21 1:18
Dpinga
Santa Rosa Bujinkan Dojo 6 2/10 9:38
Bumbling-budoka
Kyudo within the nine schools 47 1/3 22:40
Unsubscribed
   All Posts (jgaunttWA)


(1) 2 3 4 ... 11 »


Re: Combat martial art?
Active Kutakian
Joined:
2009/3/18 12:31
From Redmond, Washington
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 108
Offline
True Marcus, probably he would've broken an arm with life on the line. But, in the end, it comes back to the specific situation. We simply don't know until we are forced to choose.

That's scary as hell. But it is what it is.

Posted on: 2013/3/31 17:16
_________________
John du Pre Gauntt

Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Combat martial art?
Active Kutakian
Joined:
2009/3/18 12:31
From Redmond, Washington
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 108
Offline
I recently had a BJJ friend compete in a top level tournament, get behind in points and then get his opponent in a tight arm bar. But the other guy wouldn't tap. My friend once told me before that if he was in a tournament situation and it came down to breaking a guy's arm, he would do it. Well, it came down to that situation, the ref was looking at it close, we heard the arm pop, but at the end my friend just couldn't follow through and break his opponent's arm. Time expired and he lost on points.

I know very well that competition is a completely different world than combat, having experienced both. But I'm also certain that regardless of what we *think* about our training and its applicability, we never KNOW what will happen once we are outside the dojo and fighting, either in competition or in combat. Under extreme pressure, we do not rise to the level of what we know or what we've been exposed to. We sink to the level of our most practiced and natural abilities. Our opponents are in the same situation.

That doesn't mean I believe it's useless to teach combat oriented or derived techniques. Far from it. However, as an instructor, I'm very clear to students that their mileage may vary even if they learn everything correctly. Once combat is joined, you don't know what will happen. You simply must act and keep going.

Posted on: 2013/3/31 10:10
_________________
John du Pre Gauntt

Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Combat martial art?
Active Kutakian
Joined:
2009/3/18 12:31
From Redmond, Washington
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 108
Offline
That's a good recipe for training....regarding the hand-to-hand techniques taught at military bootcamp, I wouldn't dismiss it so lightly.

But as far as a training program, what you've laid out is reasonable. The proof of course is how training survives contact with reality.

Posted on: 2013/3/22 8:17
_________________
John du Pre Gauntt

Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Combat martial art?
Active Kutakian
Joined:
2009/3/18 12:31
From Redmond, Washington
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 108
Offline
That's a fair point Marcus. I don't disagree with you that there are many shodans and even teachers in BJK who confuse martial arts training with fighting. I agree that those twin poles are often found in separate universes.

So, to be specific.....what corrections do you advocate? Are there specific waza that need to be emphasized and other waza that need to be de-emphasized? Are there specific ryu-ha that a shodan should master in order to feel confident that they can prevail in a "real" fight.

You've made a passionate argument that the base foundation of this art is combat. That's a reasonable position and not many would disagree. But having made your point, what's the next logical step? That's the missing ingredient for me.

Truly, if what you want out of training is full-on applicability all the time, every time, then join the military wherever you live and train in their CQC. Alternatively, join a police force and learn how they deal with use of force.

Please don't think I'm disrespecting your views. Indeed, I'm trying to push you to think past a straw man argument about whether this or that teaching style or shidoshi or whatever is not keeping faith with the combat oriented lineage of Bujinkan and many other martial arts.

So I come back to the original question. What changes do you advocate?

Posted on: 2013/3/22 7:41
_________________
John du Pre Gauntt

Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Combat martial art?
Active Kutakian
Joined:
2009/3/18 12:31
From Redmond, Washington
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 108
Offline
If we're talking about Japan a few hundred years ago, the BJK teachers would no doubt shake their heads in disdain over the fact that all these foreigners are training in their art :)

More seriously, I'm curious how to test whether any techniques (BJK, BJJ, Systema etc) work in life and death combat without directly engaging in life and death combat?

I agree that there are teachers out there who have social clubs rather than dojos. But that's neither a monopoly of the BJK or anything remotely new in terms of unknown knowledge.

I'm just not clear on the ultimate point of this thread, which seems to be saying that there are a lot of BJK shidoshi who are promoting people to shodan too quickly who can't defend themselves in combat. Even assuming that's true, what's the prescription aside from harder, more "realistic" training under some sort of pressure be it randorii or similar.

The alternative is to airdrop a 1st kyu person into the Afghan mountains, the streets of Mogadishu or similar and tell them to make it out alive.

Posted on: 2013/3/22 3:48
_________________
John du Pre Gauntt

Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Tanren Uchi
Active Kutakian
Joined:
2009/3/18 12:31
From Redmond, Washington
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 108
Offline
Don't forget that grip conditioning is important as well. For that, there's nothing better than climbers putty, which you can get at most outdoor shops. It cones at various hardness. Strong grips also make for better strikes.

Posted on: 2012/3/23 14:55
_________________
John du Pre Gauntt

Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Cross Training
Active Kutakian
Joined:
2009/3/18 12:31
From Redmond, Washington
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 108
Offline
I train in both BJK and Gracie jiu-jitsu and agree wholeheartedly that it's a dodgy thing to assume from video. The MMA guys with whom I roll are in awesome shape and can smoothly transition from striking to locks to chokes. Doesn't mean that they know about weapons or multiple opponents. But it's equally silly to figure that your kyusho knowledge or similar transitions without modification.

Regardless of the case, there's definitely something to be said for experiencing other arts and perspectives. Gracie BJJ has a lot in common with Bujinkan in that there are some amazing, honorable and inspiring people engaged in the art, others making progress step by step, still others finding their way, and an near equal dollop of LARPERs and assholes who are trying to live out a fantasy. Seeing a similar distribution of personality types in another art was an unexpected bonus to cross training.

Posted on: 2012/2/2 3:25
_________________
John du Pre Gauntt

Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Cross Training
Active Kutakian
Joined:
2009/3/18 12:31
From Redmond, Washington
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 108
Offline
Six hours of grappling?

Posted on: 2012/1/31 15:06
_________________
John du Pre Gauntt

Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: "us" and "them"
Active Kutakian
Joined:
2009/3/18 12:31
From Redmond, Washington
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 108
Offline
We're in the midst of debating a competitive mindset around our table as my high school daughter is a very talented and competitive volleyball player. College recruiters are starting to sniff around. What we (parents and daughter) appear to be learning right now (the real lessons learnt are year away) is that many of the positions pro and con regarding a competitive approach to life don't hold a lot of water when you get to the thin air of top tier competition. Positively, her dedication, commitment to be excellent, desire to learn and respect certain coaches, PLUS the rigorous demands to manage time well have been enormous leaps forward. Simultaneously, there's also a healthy dollop of bitchiness, self-centered behavior, and emotional swings when it's tournament time.

I can't unequivocally declare either orientation 100% good or bad. It seems to come with the territory. At the same time, there are a few rules of thumb (at least in our house and for her younger brother) that are emerging from this experience:

1.) Choose very carefully what you intend to focus your competitive energy upon. Life is unfair (wouldn't want it any other way) and there are basic limiting factors in certain sports (body type), knowledge pursuits (all the heart in the world won't have you become a world class physicist if you haven't mastered mathematics) and so forth. If you intend to be the best in something, it should be something where you have an inkling of natural endowment.

2.) if you intend to be truly competitive in something, go all the way in terms of looking for and paying for quality. A half assed approach requires virtually the same time/effort commitment without the potential for the payoff of overcoming. There's something to be said about the bleating of budoka about being unable to attend seminars or go to Japan here.

3.) You'd do well to ensure that there's more than one activity or relationship in which you invest a lot of identity because there are going to be days in which luck goes against you regardless of the training and commitment you've invested. Likewise, it's important recognize when you've been just plain lucky (again life being unfair) and come out on top.

I really believe that there's no neat and clean answer to this issue about being competitive in life. You can retreat to your lotus petal and proclaim that you've dropped all sense of struggle and motion but you're still opposing the inertia toward struggle anyway.

In my mind, it's more about being in proportion to your stage of life when choosing what you compete in and how. Given that, I'm perfectly fine for my high school daughter to be consumed with her volleyball right now. If she's 35+ and still doing the same thing with the same attitude, that's a problem. Likewise, I don't compete in judo/BJJ tournaments anymore. But that doesn't mean I'm not rolling with people who do. Being a good sparring partner for someone wanting to compete keeps me sharp.

At the same time, I want to continue finding mountains to climb that are unique and appropriate to my stage of life. Winning tournaments used to be all I was about in my 20s. In my late 40s, I'm just as glad to be done and onto equally interesting things.

So call me biased. I think that if you tune your competitive drives in some sort of harmony with your journey through life, you'll live more positively on balance. At least that's how I'm wired.

Posted on: 2011/11/16 2:39
_________________
John du Pre Gauntt

Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: "us" and "them"
Active Kutakian
Joined:
2009/3/18 12:31
From Redmond, Washington
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 108
Offline
A foundation tenant of the art we study is that it's "natural". Okay then, lets look nature where you find all flavors and stripes of cooperation, symbiosis and yes, even altruism. But all that happens in the context of unrelenting pressure if scarcity----scarce food, water, light, heat and so forth. That pressure externally fuels the competitive urges within to overcome. In my mind, we have similar forces at work in our training and our lives. The fundamental scarcity is time. As we grow in this art we see how much more there is to grow and how little time there's left. I don't view competition as good/bad but simply natural

Posted on: 2011/11/14 15:06
_________________
John du Pre Gauntt

Transfer the post to other applications Transfer



 Top
(1) 2 3 4 ... 11 »




Today's Sponsor