Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
Socialize
 


Browsing this Thread:   1 Anonymous Users



« 1 (2)


Re: Who is/what happened to Yumio Nawa and Norihiro Iga-Hakuyusai
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2004/3/23 1:35
From JAPAN
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 193
Offline
Quote:

Kotaro wrote:
Hi

I know a Uk bujinkan shidoshi asked hatsumi about Ueno and if they had met. Hatsumi sensei at the UK 1999 Taikai said they had not, but chris is saying that they did and there are photos.

I have a the book by Kaminaga on the life of Ueno Takashi and it states in the book that Ueno would go train with Takamatsu

I always thought old history was hard but recent history is even harder to understand - gives me ahead ache


That is because a lot of rumor exist. You should know that there are many reasons why Hatsumi sensei can not tell the truth to protect the other person's honor. Even if he had many problem from them. All those informations are sometimes impolite to him and it does not understand his gentleness. If it is need, he will let you know the truth if time has come.

Posted on: 2004/11/2 11:35
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Who is/what happened to Yumio Nawa and Norihiro Iga-Hakuyusai
Active Kutakian
Joined:
2003/2/3 10:36
From 松戸市、日本
Group:
村民 :: Villager
議長 :: Mod
Posts: 120
Offline
Quote:

Jikitsu wrote:
Hatsumi-sensei was the only student that Takamatsu-sensei introduced to "Japanese Society" as his successor.

No matter who has what piece of paper there is no getting around this...


Absolutely right.

To add to that, Takamatsu sensei would write out scrolls for whoever wanted them, and some people took advantage of this. I have heard that there were some people who would collect densho from here and there and then go off and teach. I've always heard that Takamatsu sensei gave out lots of pieces of paper, but Hatsumi sensei was the only one that ever came to really train with him.

As far as there being photos of Ueno and Takamatsu sensei together, I'd believe it. I wasn't there, but I've heard that Ueno went to visit Takamatsu sensei ONCE. Lots of pictures could have been taken then, but what does having your picture taken with someone prove? I've had my picture taken with Minnie Mouse on plenty of occasions, but she still won't give me any love!


Posted on: 2004/11/2 14:15
_________________
"Death From Within!"
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Who is/what happened to Yumio Nawa and Norihiro Iga-Hakuyusai
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2003/3/23 14:32
From Honolulu
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 172
Offline
Quote:

Kizaru wrote:

As far as there being photos of Ueno and Takamatsu sensei together, I'd believe it. I wasn't there, but I've heard that Ueno went to visit Takamatsu sensei ONCE. Lots of pictures could have been taken then, but what does having your picture taken with someone prove? I've had my picture taken with Minnie Mouse on plenty of occasions, but she still won't give me any love!



Possible but highly unlikely when common sense comes into play. What motivation would Sato Kinbei, Takenouchi Nobuyoshi, and Ueno Takashi have to claimed more then 50 years ago to have trained with Takamatsu? Did they have some amazing foresight that decades later after two of the three (Takenouchi and Ueno) had passed away that Takamatsu Sensei would be well known and therefore jump on the bandwagon early? I love a good conspiracy but planning that back in the early 1950s, before Hatsumi sensei, seems prety far fetched. They hardly needed association with Takamatsu to validate themselves as martial artists, all three were headmasters of other ryu as well as having high ranks in arts not associated with Takamatsu. Sato and Takenouchi had a long history with Takamatsu and they seemed to have vouched for Ueno based on letters of introduction still in possession of Takenouchi Toichiro. Unless of course you want to attack their credibility as well.

By the way before you assume that those photoes are only from one visit, maybe you should talk to Kaminaga Shigemi. One of his students is a former Bujinkan member, he can probably make an introduction.

Posted on: 2004/11/2 17:20
_________________
Christopher Moon
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Who is/what happened to Yumio Nawa and Norihiro Iga-Hakuyusai
Permanent Village Fixture
Joined:
2004/5/20 18:59
From Wales, United Kingdom
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 499
Offline
So, going back to the original question then.

According to Andy Adams' book "Ninja - The Invisible Assassins", we find the following quote:-

Quote:
Noriho Iga-Hakuyusai, the son of an Iga ninja practitioner, is unmarried, childless and without relatives - an elusive loner. He refuses to divulge any information about himself and maintains no fixed address because, as he says, ninja should always be on the move, never settle in one place and keep themselves out of the limelight


Then we have:-

Quote:
Iga-Hakuyusai started his ninja training at the age of six under the tutelage of his father and during the war taught at Nakano Academy, the former military intelligence school


And finally:-

Quote:
Iga-Hakuyusai devotes his time to performing for Japanese school children around the country


All these quotes are from page 166 of the above book.

That should be enough information to get you started. Try contacting the Nakano Academy for his background, what subjects he taught etc. Try contacting the Japanese education system - if he was teaching school children, he should be on record somewhere.

Posted on: 2004/11/2 23:09
_________________
Andrew K Jones

"Ultimately, we must forget technique, but forgetting about technique is not the same as never having learned it."
Hideharu Onuma
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Who is/what happened to Yumio Nawa and Norihiro Iga-Hakuyusai
Permanent Village Fixture
Joined:
2004/5/20 18:59
From Wales, United Kingdom
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 499
Offline
You could also try reading this book to see whether Noriho Iga-Hakuyusai is mentioned.

http://www.brasseysinc.com/Books/BookDetail.aspx?productID=50557

Posted on: 2004/11/2 23:43
_________________
Andrew K Jones

"Ultimately, we must forget technique, but forgetting about technique is not the same as never having learned it."
Hideharu Onuma
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Who is/what happened to Yumio Nawa and Norihiro Iga-Hakuyusai
Honorary Villager
Joined:
2003/2/2 10:54
From Sacramento, California
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 35
Offline
The Nakano school no longer exists, although there are still some graduates living. I read the book "Shadow warriors of Nakano" and do not recall Norihiro Iga-Hakuyusai being mentioned, but they didn't mention everyone that taught at the academy. On that note I highly recommend this book to all Bujinkan students. It was interesting to see the difference in training and in mentality between regular Japanese soldiers and those trained at the Nakano school.


Alex

Posted on: 2004/11/3 2:27
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Who is/what happened to Yumio Nawa and Norihiro Iga-Hakuyusai
Active Kutakian
Joined:
2003/7/3 3:51
From USA
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 124
Offline
Quote:

Tamatora wrote:
That is because a lot of rumor exist. You should know that there are many reasons why Hatsumi sensei can not tell the truth to protect the other person's honor. Even if he had many problem from them. All those informations are sometimes impolite to him and it does not understand his gentleness. If it is need, he will let you know the truth if time has come.


Harada sama

you are most correct here.

I think sometimes we non-japanese sometimes forget the Japanese way of telling us things, in order to protect there seniors. A matter of honour and respect we are not used to.

Gaijin are far too nosey someties asking questions in the wrong manner and at the wrong time.

We all know that Hatsumi sensei trained with both Ueno sensei and Takamatsu sensei. hatsumi sensei today is trying to guide us towards Takamatsu sensei rather than towards Ueno Sensei.

wether or not Ueno Sensei trained with Takamatsu not is of no difference to Hatsumi sensei as we are following the lineage of Takamatsu - Hatsumi and not Takamatsu - Ueno - Hatsumi.

Maybe hatsumi sensei cant openly talk about such events because to do so would disrespect himself, Ueno and Takamatasu, keeping matters quite he maintains respect for all of his previous seniors and sensei.

many of us in the Bujinkan could learn a valuable lesson here on respect for seniors.

Maybe one day he will tells us his side of the story and maybe he wont. We will just have to wait and see.

As nsawa sensie is a topic of this thread maybe someone in Japan could ask Hatsumi sensei abouthis training with Nawa sensei and if he is willing to discuss it then let us all know the answers, if not then lets try to find info on the other gentleman mentioned in the orginal question

Posted on: 2004/11/3 15:57
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Who is/what happened to Yumio Nawa and Norihiro Iga-Hakuyusai
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2004/3/23 1:35
From JAPAN
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 193
Offline
Quote:

Kotaro wrote:

Harada sama

you are most correct here.

I think sometimes we non-japanese sometimes forget the Japanese way of telling us things, in order to protect there seniors. A matter of honour and respect we are not used to.

Gaijin are far too nosey someties asking questions in the wrong manner and at the wrong time.
....



I think it is not only for non-Japanese but also for us. I did also same mistake to Hatsumi sensei. Sometimes he was very angry about it.

Please be sure that even if I have been told about it which you wish to know, I can not answer to you at here. These dilemma are not only for me but also for the other students who have right mind and true knowledge.

I only can say that all those persons knew each other and Takamatsu sensei told that Hatsumi sensei was most suitable person who can succeed him even when his other students or friends were alive.

Posted on: 2004/11/3 17:23
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Who is/what happened to Yumio Nawa and Norihiro Iga-Hakuyusai
Honorary Villager
Joined:
2004/12/22 6:50
From Illinios, USA
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 40
Offline
Hi, I am new to this forum and train in the united states. Where would I be able to pick up a copy of this book that you mention? I have seen most of the books available through the Richard Van Donk site/catalog but do not recall seeing this title.

Posted on: 2004/12/23 2:08
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Who is/what happened to Yumio Nawa and Norihiro Iga-Hakuyusai
Honorary Villager
Joined:
2004/2/19 9:43
From Toronto, ON
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 38
Offline
"Master Yumio Nawa did teach Hatsumi the art of Ninpo and Masaki Ryu - manrikigusari (ten thousand power chain), kusarigama (chain and sickle) and Edo machikata jutte tornawa atsukaiyo (sword breaking and tying cord). These and 18 other kobujutsu categories were taught. Hatsumi finished his training in three years and seems to still share common interests with that instructor. Both Hatsumi and Nawa are martial arts historians, writers and T.V. network advisors."

Direct citation from http://www.bujinkanbc.com/HAT.htm

------------------------------------------------------

The info on cited web site was lifted directly of my web site - and I'm the one to blame for that confusion - I did write that bio based on my personal research and do not claim its 100% accurate... just my interpretation of facts I gathered and info I got from one of a personal student of Nawa who was interested in Hatsumi sensei (he was writing bio of Nawa then) - I got photo of Hatsumi with Nawa from him. Thanx to your discussion I would change some info on that page - so there is less confusion in the future.



http://www.geocities.com/remipulwer/doc10.htm

Posted on: 2005/2/24 4:09
_________________
Remi Pulwer
Toronto, Ont.
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer



« 1 (2)




[Advanced Search]