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Slow-mo thing
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Here's something that struck me from the Intuition II topic.

"About the slow motion thing I experienced it once when I was attacked by a bunch of construction workers in 1993 and everything was in slow motion for sometime. It got back to normal when I decided to get away. I did not even feel that I was stabbed."

Now I've read Peyton Quinn's stuff describing adrenal dump and how he has a system for unlocking martial arts skill even during such a state. I am just curious, how many of us on Kutaki have experienced this slow-mo thing during an actual attack? And how many have experienced it more than once? Care to describe your experiences? I am quite curious about such things...

Junjie

Posted on: 2007/6/6 15:55
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Re: Slow-mo thing
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Junjie,
I've had low (kamae)/slow (movement) recommended by a qualified person to do so as a good methodology for refinining taijutsu and strengthening the lower body. As far as training to deal with stressful situations, the best and most consistent advice I was given was to train hard for several decades. That bit of advice was given without me having to ask because I have no shortage of opportunities for stress-testing in my life.


Peyton Quinn's (and "The Animal's") training methods seem to offer some interesting benefits but it still makes me laugh when he and Glen Morris describe adrenal endocrinology like they are describing an oil change.

Good luck!

Posted on: 2007/6/7 2:34
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Re: Slow-mo thing
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Quote:

shunketsu wrote:
Here's something that struck me from the Intuition II topic.

"About the slow motion thing I experienced it once when I was attacked by a bunch of construction workers in 1993 and everything was in slow motion for sometime. It got back to normal when I decided to get away. I did not even feel that I was stabbed."

Now I've read Peyton Quinn's stuff describing adrenal dump and how he has a system for unlocking martial arts skill even during such a state. I am just curious, how many of us on Kutaki have experienced this slow-mo thing during an actual attack? And how many have experienced it more than once? Care to describe your experiences? I am quite curious about such things...

Junjie


I've experienced it more than once, and in life-threatening situations. It's a good thing in the sense that you transcend fear, and pain, but absolutely a terrible phenomenon is that it is physiologically crippling and greatly limited what I could actually *do* to a great extent.

It always seemed to me that those who are inexperienced and untrained (the consumers of Paladin Press books and such) are concerned that they will not enter into this state and gravitate towards instructional materials that promise to teach how to "unleash the inner beast".

For we who train in a school which concerns itself very much with staying connected with "real life", I think the goal is the opposite - having the training and understanding to avoid going into sympathetic nervous system overload.

I work as a medic seasonally, doing mostly bike races these days. We cover a race that goes over a well-known long moutain road well into a completely different County on Sunday of Memorial day weekend (Mt. Hamilton Road into Livemore), and then another criterion on Monday in the city.

Monday on the last lap of the last race a rider took the last corner way too fast, went airborne and crashed full-on into a light pole. He fractured both clavicles, a scapula, bruised a lung and had blood in his chest. When we arrived he was unconscious and stayed so for several minutes. We had to immediately suction out his airway to prevent aspiration. The point of this is that is was an unusually severe crash for the sorts of events we work, one of the very worst.

After he was on his way to the hospital most of the medics naturally had to calm down and let the adrenaline settle. I realized then that I had dumped no noticeable adrenaline at all.

While I'm an experienced medic, I credit this to my Bujinkan training. The final note of this is that if you don't have adrenaline on board in a fight, then you better have the taijutsu to deal with someone who does.

Posted on: 2007/6/7 3:44
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Re: Slow-mo thing
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Here is a related New Scientist article "Teach your brain to stretch time": http://www.newscientist.com/channel/b ... rain-to-stretch-time.html

Posted on: 2007/6/7 12:06
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Re: Slow-mo thing
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Quote:

antizen wrote:
I've experienced it more than once, and in life-threatening situations. It's a good thing in the sense that you transcend fear, and pain, but absolutely a terrible phenomenon is that it is physiologically crippling and greatly limited what I could actually *do* to a great extent.


Now I don't feel THAT bad, to know that a shidoshi will experience the same problems as me, and if I keep training there's hope...

Quote:


It always seemed to me that those who are inexperienced and untrained (the consumers of Paladin Press books and such) are concerned that they will not enter into this state and gravitate towards instructional materials that promise to teach how to "unleash the inner beast".


I wonder if any of those people with the inner beast unleashed would ever appear on the "most memorable wierdo" topic?

Quote:


For we who train in a school which concerns itself very much with staying connected with "real life", I think the goal is the opposite - having the training and understanding to avoid going into sympathetic nervous system overload.


It's kinda presented as an inevitable side of combat. Don't know if the others on this forum agree. I'm looking into this topic myself, and as a Bujinkan guy of course I want to know what experiences we in the Bujinkan have in this, and how we interpret it.


Quote:


...
While I'm an experienced medic, I credit this to my Bujinkan training. The final note of this is that if you don't have adrenaline on board in a fight, then you better have the taijutsu to deal with someone who does.


And what would that encompass? Kuzushi? Ukemi? Kyojitsu? It'll be all the stuff that we are already supposed to be working on, right?

Personally, I suspect that at the end, my conclusion will be to just keep doing what my shidoshi teaches, but until I actually investigate the adrenal dump topic myself I'll always have questions on the back of my mind.

Just in case anyone is wondering, my shidoshi did have lessons in which he got us to do taijutsu as if we had adrenal dump. He didn't call it that, of course, but doing my reading later on I realized that's what he was addressing.

Junjie

Posted on: 2007/6/7 16:31
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Re: Slow-mo thing
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If you have the "taijutsu", you probably won't ever get the "adrenalin dump". I think that comes when you have the fear for your safety. If you have complete confidence in what you do then just maybe it never happens.

Posted on: 2007/6/7 23:11
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Re: Slow-mo thing
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I am not sure about the adrenalin dump, but people do deal with life threatening situations differently. I have never experienced the slow motion thing. In the life threatening situations I have been in, it was like I was on automatice pilot. I didn't even recognize what I was doing when I did it. Afterward, I could play it back in my mind and see what happened, but not when it was happening. That seems to work well for me -- no bullet holes or major injuries so far.

Jeff

Posted on: 2007/6/8 0:23
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Re: Slow-mo thing
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Quote:

shunketsu wrote:
Quote:

antizen wrote:
I've experienced it more than once, and in life-threatening situations. It's a good thing in the sense that you transcend fear, and pain, but absolutely a terrible phenomenon is that it is physiologically crippling and greatly limited what I could actually *do* to a great extent.


Now I don't feel THAT bad, to know that a shidoshi will experience the same problems as me, and if I keep training there's hope...


Junjie


Actually I experienced this in my younger years, long before Bujinkan training. Your point stands though - we're all human beings and we all share the same struggles and challenges.

Posted on: 2007/6/8 1:27
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Re: Slow-mo thing
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Quote:

Papa-san wrote:
If you have the "taijutsu", you probably won't ever get the "adrenalin dump". I think that comes when you have the fear for your safety. If you have complete confidence in what you do then just maybe it never happens.


Papa-san, you're not the only one saying that. Someone promoting one of those 'inner-beast' training things in a Black-belt mag article said the same thing.

I wasn't too sure about that bcoz I am naturally sceptical about people with their own latest-greatest-secret-to-martial-arts-mastery teaching to promote. Not that they might not have some value in what they teach, but I've to see if others from different arts and backgrounds agree with them.

So now it's back to more and more training to get to the point of complete confidence (if that's ever possible for me...) *sigh* "it's the journey, not the destination, it's the journey, not the destination... ohhmmmm..."

Junjie

Posted on: 2007/6/8 13:14
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Re: Slow-mo thing
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Quote:

Shinobiko wrote:

In the life threatening situations I have been in, it was like I was on automatic pilot. I didn't even recognize what I was doing when I did it. Afterward, I could play it back in my mind and see what happened, but not when it was happening. That seems to work well for me -- no bullet holes or major injuries so far.

Jeff


Wow! That's cool.

Question for you: was this pre-Bujinkan or after Bujinkan training? I'd like to get to that point someday, ideally sooner rather than later.

Junjie

Posted on: 2007/6/8 13:20
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