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The concept of enough
Cant Stay Offline
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2003/6/13 23:29
From Pennsylvania, USA
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For each of us there is a point when "enough" is "enough". When a person gets personally disrespected that has entered the "enough" area. Ideas can always be disagreed with and one should never expect everyone else to agree with your ideas or philosophies. You should expect some background to support the validity of that opinion. I will always discuss approaches and philosophy and how to best approach our own training. Difference of opinion is good in such discussions, as we all get exposed to other ways of thinking which may very well cause us to modify the way we then think. Many times in my life I have gained from honest expression of a differing idea. I do think that few of us respond well to strident insisting by someone on "his" way. That is especially true for me. In past days it was very acceptable to "call someone out" and say "OK, let's do it". That evidently is not permitted here. It is not my place to say what is permitted. I made what I thought was a very courteous invitation and it hasn't been withdrawn. I will not speak of it further. Maybe it is time to make some guidelines about when discussions have departed from the difference of opinion into the attacking of persons. Many times I have had occurences in seminars where someone has said he had questions about what I had shown, my response has always been, well then do it and we'll see. Pragmatic is a good word for our art, It is effective and very efficient when understood and done as it can be. So I would like to know what IS acceptable and how far a person should just shut up when another member chooses to character assasinate them. I look forward to a good discussion on that issue.

Posted on: 2007/11/7 11:48
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Ed Martin aka Papa-san
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Re: The concept of enough
Kutaki Postmaster
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When enough is enough why not just walk away? Isn't that the mature approach?

If I'm at a party and someone is trying to niggle me and get up my nose I don't have to have a shouting match with him or a fight - I can just go home.

If you don't feel like kutaki is providing you with it's stated goal of being "dedicated to the Bujinkan martial arts of Masaaki Hatsumi Soke, and to the spirit of cooperation and friendship in the Bujinkan community" then I think it probably time to leave.

Posted on: 2007/11/7 12:38
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Re: The concept of enough
Honorary Villager
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2005/5/11 3:05
From Sioux Empire
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Duncan, as an aside...

When did this "dedicated to the Bujinkan martial arts of Masaaki Hatsumi Soke, and to the spirit of cooperation and friendship in the Bujinkan community" become the stated purpose of Kutaki no Mura?

I recognize that as being the purpose of the podcast but that is a different entity. I do, however, remember Shawn calling Kutaki a Bujinkan social experiment or some such.

Just trying to define terms and watching the goings on with an interest born of nothing better to do whilst enjoying a beer...

Posted on: 2007/11/7 13:40
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レスレスリ.羆
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"I believe now there is no school worth its existence except as it's a form of nature study..."

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Re: The concept of enough
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Quote:

偵察 wrote:
Duncan, as an aside...

When did this "dedicated to the Bujinkan martial arts of Masaaki Hatsumi Soke, and to the spirit of cooperation and friendship in the Bujinkan community" become the stated purpose of Kutaki no Mura?


Hell, when did we all have to be friends and cooperate? It amazes me how we all want to be so politically correct all the time of late...

There are a lot of people in the Bujinkan I don't want to cooperate with as they are teaching or practicing in a way that I find contrary to the lessons I hear coming from Soke's mouth. So why is it a bad thing to openly discuss these things? Why must everything be so sugar coated... this is a martial art not a self-help organization.

Posted on: 2007/11/7 14:08
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Re: The concept of enough
Kutaki Postmaster
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I'm just surprised people in glass houses are so willing to throw stones.

I assume now you've changed your previous view in appealing that kutaki is damaging the Bujinkan and should be closed down?

Posted on: 2007/11/7 14:36
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Re: The concept of enough
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Not in the least...

First off, I never said Kutaki was damaging to the Bujinkan. I simply said it serves no purpose as nothing worthwhile has ever really come out of it.

I had a very long discussion with Shawn regarding this some years ago and I said that, in my opinion, there were only a specific few subforums that served any real purpose - Japanese Language, Life in Japan, Books & Video, Seminars and Dojo X. I still feel this way...

I pretty much feel that any actual conversation about training needs to occur in person on the tatami. The rest is just a big waste...

For once we had a post that offered a solution to the back and forth talking and tried to end the uselss posting of crap and get on the tatami. And of course that gets shut down, but the ethereal pontifications of people who can't even punch correctly will continue.

So no, I don't think my viewpoint has changed in the slightest.

Posted on: 2007/11/7 14:47
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Re: The concept of enough
Kutaki Postmaster
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Quote:

JeffMueller wrote:
I pretty much feel that any actual conversation about training needs to occur in person on the tatami. The rest is just a big waste...


And this is why you never conduct a conversation about training on kutaki, only "in person on the tatami" ?

Posted on: 2007/11/7 14:59
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Re: The concept of enough
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Quote:

Zenigata wrote:

And this is why you never conduct a conversation about training on kutaki, only "in person on the tatami" ?


I pretty much don't really... not for years.

I might throw my two yen in on subjects like the "High/Low percentage technique" discussion or whatnot. But my standard fare has been for quite sometime "Ask your instructor" or "Watch a video".

But you miss the point... whether or not I throw something out there is a meaningless as the post itself. You cannot learn from video as Soke says, and you cannot understand someone discussing training through words on a screen.

What I say online is as useless as what you say, Ed says or a random 9th kyu says. Unless I step onto a tatami with the person I am having a discussion about training with, there is no way to truly get any point across regardless of what it is. Without that face to face discussion there is no way for anyone reading posts on here to seperate the wheat from the chaff so to speak.

It is due to this uselessness that makes places like Kutaki nothing more than a diversion from something (in my case often my work day), but it definitely is not a worthwhile resource for any credible information or training. That is all I am saying.

And on that note, I am off to bed... feel free to keep trying to somehow turn this around on me though Duncan. Whatever floats your boat mate!

Posted on: 2007/11/7 15:08
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Re: The concept of enough
Village Old Timer
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2004/12/21 19:52
From Dayton, Ohio
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When a neighborhood becomes hostile, some people move out. Some people really like their house and strive to keep up the neighborhood and drive out the bad influences. Eventually, you have to ask yourself what are you getting out of the community - and at what cost.

I have enjoyed many of the conversations on the forum but I feel they have been increasingly hostile and degrading to the bujinkan. I have disagreed with many comments but I did not participate because I did not want to get caught up in what seems like very childish arguing.

In the ER I get alot of psych patients. The borderline personality disorders love to engage staff with arguments. They delight in upsetting people and are very good and finding out what gets your goat. Especially with these folks, the worse thing you can do is to argue with them. The best thing to do is to say "I'm sorry you feel that way", smile and walk away. It really makes them CRAZY!

I agree with Duncan that one measure of a Confident individual is the ability to walk away from an ignorant blow hard. Their actions will eventually catch up to them.

Marty

Posted on: 2007/11/7 15:38
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Re: The concept of enough
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Mr. Dunsky,

Since the thread is about Ed challenging Dan, then are you saying Dan is an ignorant blowhard?

This is the point. How do you know, without training with him? You don't.

Public challenges have a long history. Not only that, but when they're *done* things tend to blow over. When bad feelings fester for years the poison spreads and a general uneasiness exists where it could have been simply vented and cured.

aric keith

Posted on: 2007/11/7 22:49
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