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The Most Direct Path
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Posted on: 2011/4/19 21:40
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Re: The Most Direct Path
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Hello,

Read your blog post and there's a few things I respectfully disagree with;

- study applications
- study a movements use in self defence

If your techniques are not practiced in such a manner that they cannot be applied to any given scenario, self defense or otherwise, how will you know if they work?

- spar or drill against a resisting opponent.

Not to beat a dead horse here, but try to apply the kihon or sanshin against someone wearing 16 oz gloves who is actively trying to punch you in the face and/or wrap you up to take you down.. I mean really do it, and see how it works.


- add any clothing, armour or equipment to the movement

I think that while the gross movement is still there, a person would move differently from wearing jeans/shoes, shorts/flip-flops, BDU's/LBE/rucksack, and to know how exactly one would move - a person should practice in each different attire. (An example would be seeing how your center of gravity is affected by wearing a backpack full of books)

- add fitness drills

Yes IMNSHO fitness ability has a direct correlation to actions taken during a confrontation and thusly should be included as part of training.
What level of fitness should a person be at that mimics the level of physicality that happens during a confrontation or during a situation where a person is in extremis (not necessarily a confrontation)? Is a different topic altogether.

Just a few thoughts of mine, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts with regards to what I have said.

Rob Acox

Posted on: 2011/4/21 6:25
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Re: The Most Direct Path
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You can do all these things but it’s not the most direct path.

It seems the assumption you are making is that the goal is to become an effective fighter or self defence. If this is the case then the budo of the Bujinkan is not the most direct path. For example if your immediate goal is to trial yourself against someone “wearing 16 oz gloves who is actively trying to punch you in the face and/or wrap you up to take you down.” Then trying to adapt Sanshin no Kata or Kihon Happo for this purpose it not the most direct path.

You can modify a Lamborghini to drive offroad given enough time and effort but it is not as easy as buying a 4WD in the first place and at the end you have a rubbish Lamborghini.


Posted on: 2011/4/21 8:42
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Re: The Most Direct Path
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/Yes this is the most direct path that very few follow..... How exciting is it to repeat the same movement over and over again?

Posted on: 2011/4/21 12:10
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Re: The Most Direct Path
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"It seems the assumption you are making is that the goal is to become an effective fighter or self defence"

Well I suppose it all boils down to why a person trains. (After all this is a MARTIAL art is it not?)

I agree with this: "Understand the basic mechanics of movement in balance, distance, timing, flow and physiology." in that without these, everything else is FUBAR.

BUT, without a test platform, in whatever form you wish, it is all just theory.

Good budo performance vs Good budo effectiveness.

Posted on: 2011/4/21 12:23
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Tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,
that here obedient to their laws we lie.
........................................
"Come and take them!" King Leonidas' reply to Xerxes' demand the Spartans lay down their arms at the Battle of Thermopylae.
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Re: The Most Direct Path
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Quote:

Kage-Ronin wrote:
BUT, without a test platform, in whatever form you wish, it is all just theory.


But if you test a theory and you can’t get the test to reach the same conclusion what do you do? Abandon the movement? From this point we pass from budo to kakutogi.

For example kyudo is a form of budo (arguably the purest form of budo). If you look at it as trying to shoot arrows at a target the method chosen is far from the most efficient. The most direct path to mastery of kyudo is to practice the form many times concentrating on the flow, breathing etc. The most efficient path to mastery of combat shooting with the bow is different. If I train in kyudo but try to adapt the form to both combat archery I could fail at both – or at least take a longer path to mastery in either.

Quote:

Kage-Ronin wrote:
Well I suppose it all boils down to why a person trains.


The “why” is the goal and the “training” is the action. To what degree does the action support the goal?

Quote:

Kage-Ronin wrote:
Good budo performance vs Good budo effectiveness.


Well I think we can be “effective” in producing “Good budo performance” but often this is stunted by an attempt of effectiveness in different areas.

But I think my point is being missed a little bit. Different people have different areas of interest and the training they create around this reflect their own interest. When I practice something in my dojo I may include any of the things I listed as being outside the “most direct path”. But I think in recognizing what that path is and anything outside of it (applications, henka, historical context, etc) as a supplementary exercise then I keep closer to that path of incremental improvement.

Posted on: 2011/4/21 14:47
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Re: The Most Direct Path
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direct path to what?

Posted on: 2011/4/21 17:24
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Re: The Most Direct Path
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Not sure what the point is here, Duncan. It certainly is a direct path, but to what, I'm not sure. What you've essentially done is remove the "martial" aspect here and ensured that the training has no basis in combat effectiveness - kind of like trying to fire a cannon from a canoe.
Hatsumi Sensei does not train this way, and I'm fairly certain neither did Takamatsu. So why would we?

Thanks,

Posted on: 2011/4/21 21:32
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Re: The Most Direct Path
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Quote:

JonHaas wrote:
Not sure what the point is here, Duncan. It certainly is a direct path, but to what, I'm not sure. What you've essentially done is remove the "martial" aspect here and ensured that the training has no basis in combat effectiveness - kind of like trying to fire a cannon from a canoe.
Hatsumi Sensei does not train this way, and I'm fairly certain neither did Takamatsu. So why would we?

Thanks,


Yes this is what I have been trying to say.

Or another way to look at it:

No contact: Not hitting = not fighting. Not fighting = not "martial" art. If you are not making contact, you do not know how you will react to contact. if you are not moving at full speed with real intent, then you do not know what full speed and intent will entail. Ergo, you are NOT prepared for actual fighting.

~Rob Acox

Posted on: 2011/4/22 7:25
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Tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,
that here obedient to their laws we lie.
........................................
"Come and take them!" King Leonidas' reply to Xerxes' demand the Spartans lay down their arms at the Battle of Thermopylae.
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Re: The Most Direct Path
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a. Direct Path to what = Direct path to the budo performance demonstrated by my teacher(s)

b. Don't borrow the authority of Hatsumi-sensei and Takamatsu-sensei. Anyway, I don't agree since my understanding is their training being of the type I described in my article. In fact 95% of the training I have done in Japan with my sensei and sempai have been of this sort.

c. My view is that a Budoka pursues budo for it's own sake.

Posted on: 2011/4/22 8:38
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