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Re: Kihon Happo
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Never could figure the diff. b/w Omote Gyaku and Kote Gaiish. I've heard many explanations but most of them half-hearted (ie. touching the wrist vs not., applying pressure primarily into the forearm vs. setting the grind and twisting/walking with it). Any enlightened ones willing to share?

Hold fast,

J. Ryan Ruch


Far from enlightened,
however I believe Omote Kote Gyaku and Kote Gaeshi differ in that the latter maintains a locked out elbow and wrist controlling the spine,while the former alows a bent elbow but locked out wrist controlling the shoulders,also the shoulders and spine are used slightly different in execution of the waza.This is in the very basic exercises.I am sure they meet and cross at some point when discussing distance and timing :)-shutting up now.

Posted on: 2004/11/13 7:47
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Mickey Mullins
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Re: Kihon Happo
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when i first started training i thought it was keys in happo, ie the first key in happo, 2nd key in happo etc. do'h! i don't think i was the only one though.

perhaps i wasn't that far off the mark though, rather than 'eight ways' more like 'infinanty' eight keys to infinaty sort of thing.

in my warped mind i just had a flash of stargate sg1, only once all the chevrons are properly and firmly locked in place does the portal open, he he(not sure if there are eight though)

there is no faking it either, you have a grasp of the taijutsu or you don't. the true budoka can spot the fraudsters a mile off, and unfortunatly it doesn't seem to be a quick thing to learn.

Posted on: 2004/11/13 12:13
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darren stewart

Oldschoolcarpentry.com.au
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Re: Kihon Happo
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Kotaro and Jryan are both wrong. Jyryan VERY (but only a little) wrong!
Soke put out a book recently, it was called "Secret Techniques". He puts the Kihon in there, maybe you could read it and see what Soke thinks about the Kihon Happo?

Posted on: 2004/11/14 6:39
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Well, on a Buddhist scale of 1-7...
most definately a 2!
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Re: Kihon Happo
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While there are an actual eight kata I think it is a mistake to define the Kihon Happo narrowly.

One way I was told to look at it was in terms of "distance". Ichimonji and Hicho start of from a distance; Jumonji is an exchange of blows from closer; Next it the kote waza of Omote / Ura Gyakku and Ken sabaki kata - but this can also incorporate hon gyakku and take ori.

We then have the arm locks (a slightly closer distance) of Musha Dori which should also include Muso Dori, Oni Kudaki etc finally blending into the very close distance of Ganseki which can include the distance of various throws.

Then of course one distance starts to blend with another and the borders are blurred. Omote Gyaku to Musha Dori, Ura Gyakku to Muso Dori to Ganseki.

This is one way of looking at it - of course there are many others.

The argument on whether Oni Kudaki is a part of Kihon Happo or not falls into the mindset of defining things with kata. Of course it is a part of Kihon Happo even if it isn't included in the original densho. That is why soke often throws in Oni Kudaki (as well as other things) into the Kihon Happo.

I'm pretty sure Ganseki has always been taught as part of Kihon Happo. Even Takamatsu-sensei does it when he goes through the kihon on the DVD.

I think there was some confusion in the early days for Western instructors as they were searhing for eight techniques when Soke and the other Shihan would include other Kihon as part of the Kihon Happo.

As for "who is right and who is wrong" it's probably a case of if you think you know then you are definately wrong. I think it was Nagato-sensei who said there is no right and wrong way to do anything - just correct and incorrect.

Posted on: 2004/11/14 12:44
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Re: Kihon Happo
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Quote:

Kintiiwa wrote:
Kotaro and Jryan are both wrong. Jyryan VERY (but only a little) wrong!
Soke put out a book recently, it was called "Secret Techniques". He puts the Kihon in there, maybe you could read it and see what Soke thinks about the Kihon Happo?


Hi

if I am wrong then so is the tenchijin.

it quite clearly states in the tenchijin that the first 3 are named and the next 5 are numbered, if you have a copy go look for yourself.

as for the secret techniques book.

Is this available, as I have not seen it.

so as I am quoting tenchijin and not some secret techniques book I would say with regards to the TCJ I am definately 'VERY RIGHT'

Anyone have info on how we get the secret technqiues book is it for sale amazon or in the hombu, any info is appreciated

thanks

Posted on: 2004/11/14 18:37
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Re: Kihon Happo
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I think he is talking about the new book by soke "Way of the Ninja - Secret Techniques" which I'm sure you are aware of.

I have no idea how this proves anyone wrong though? The written explanation of the Kihon is pretty much a translation of what was put out in the Tenchijin but it does include a bit more in the photo series with Oni Kudaki and Take Ori also illustrated.

Posted on: 2004/11/14 18:43
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Re: Kihon Happo
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Quote:

Anyone have info on how we get the secret technqiues book is it for sale amazon or in the hombu, any info is appreciated


Here it is.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/ ... 28059/104-7293644-1583156

Posted on: 2004/11/14 18:43
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Re: Kihon Happo
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in the 1970's when the first gaijin learned kihon happo that Ganseki was not part of it and oni kudaki was. things changed (as always in the bujinkan) and oni kudaki was removed and replaced with Ganseki.


This is incorrect; further, there is a little something to it, which involves transmission.

Posted on: 2004/11/14 21:39
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most definately a 2!
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Re: Kihon Happo
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Hi Kintiiwa

if it is incorrect then please tell us what is correct.

Posted on: 2004/11/14 23:46
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Re: Kihon Happo
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It's not that important, really. But if you really want to know, ask Someya sensei. But it's really not that big a deal, don't you agree?

Posted on: 2004/11/15 0:33
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