Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
Socialize
 


Browsing this Thread:   1 Anonymous Users



« 1 (2) 3 4 5 »


Re: the essence of something
Cant Stay Offline
Joined:
2003/6/13 23:29
From Pennsylvania, USA
Group:
村民 :: Villager
議長 :: Mod
師導士会 :: Shidoshikai
Posts: 1834
Offline
Gentlemen, these were very specific questions that I asked him at the 2002 Tai Kai I hosted near St Louis. They were accurately translated by Ben Jones. If you think them a "slippery slope" or question them then I can only say go ask Dr. Hatsumi as I did. The point I make is that our art which comes from many other sources was always proven though real experience. They, the ninja, took ANYTHING that they could effectively use. Also bear in mind that if they took things that didn't work it could get them killed. If you choose to take a "technique" from another art then THAT responsibility is YOURS! You had better have a good enough understanding to know if it will work. This Bujinkan is NOT about scoring points or stroking one's ego, it is about SURVIVING, about being the one who gets to go home instead of to the morgue or the hospital. It is important to keep that in mind. I would also expect that each of us is credited with enough sense to make good choices ----- until we prove otherwise.

Posted on: 2007/11/1 1:18
_________________
Ed Martin aka Papa-san
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: the essence of something
Cant Stay Offline
Joined:
2003/8/1 23:57
From Hamina, Finland
Group:
村民 :: Villager
議長 :: Mod
師導士会 :: Shidoshikai
Posts: 1682
Offline
Quote:

Papa-san wrote:
If you choose to take a "technique" from another art then THAT responsibility is YOURS! You had better have a good enough understanding to know if it will work.


So... If I had, say, 20 years of experience and a teaching license in... say... Hanmoodo (a Korean style very popular here in Finland) it would be OK to do things the way I did them in my old art as I surely know they work...?

And it would be ok to teach them again to people training with me, and ok to show them at Honbu/Ayase and possibly get filmed, too?

Just trying to get it right, sorry

Posted on: 2007/11/1 1:53
_________________
Ari Julku
Shidōshi
Bujinkan Ōari Dōjō
(Bujinkan Budōka since 1985)
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: the essence of something
Cant Stay Offline
Joined:
2003/6/13 23:29
From Pennsylvania, USA
Group:
村民 :: Villager
議長 :: Mod
師導士会 :: Shidoshikai
Posts: 1834
Offline
What makes you think that "20 years experience and a teaching license" means you know a technique will work???? I have seen instructors with "20 years experience" teaching things that will get their students killed. Why? Because they flat were never in a position to really know, nor did they talk with someone who had "been there". If you have faced a serious situation and used a certain "technique" THEN you know if it works. Let's not get into this thing about "how much experience" when we can't know what type of "experience" that was. I'm not going to interpret this any farther, if you take something from another art and bring it into what you do, YOU are the one responsible for that ---- no one else. I repeat what Dr Hatsumi said to me and that was as I said, the only test is "does it work".

Posted on: 2007/11/1 8:57
_________________
Ed Martin aka Papa-san
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: the essence of something
Cant Stay Offline
Joined:
2003/6/13 23:29
From Pennsylvania, USA
Group:
村民 :: Villager
議長 :: Mod
師導士会 :: Shidoshikai
Posts: 1834
Offline
I wasn't going to but changed my mind and WILL say something more. Just what is Budo??? Is it just a bunch of "techniques"??? Anyone who has listened to Dr. Hatsumi will immediately recognize the fallacy of that idea!!! Budo is so much more, it contains a warrior's attitude, as well as a warrior's skill. It also contains the ability to use whatever will fit the situation REGARDLESS of where it came from. There is a totally different energy involved in this, and if you haven't felt what I'm talking about I can't explain it to you. I apologize for that, but I can't. The energy recognizes fear but discounts it in what it does. Death is recognized but again it won't inhibit what a warrior recognizes should be done. He/she just does it. Often that very energy helps the warrior survive.

Posted on: 2007/11/1 9:10
_________________
Ed Martin aka Papa-san
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: the essence of something
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2006/9/1 12:02
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 215
Offline
Quote:

noname wrote:
what constitutes painting? perhaps simply a brush used to apply a prepared liquid to a surface.

what constitutes charcoal drawing? perhaps a piece of charcoal used on as surface.

what constitutes drawing in general? perhaps an instrument used on a surface.

so I pose the question, what constitutes Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu?



I think a successful outcome in either painting, charcoal drawing, pen / pencil drawing etc involves a blend of a small degree of technical competence, an intuitive understanding of composition and spatial relationships and the ability to put down on paper only that which is necessary (knowing what to omit).

A brilliant artist has the confidence to make a large brush stroke across the surface in a bold move. Such a person can squiggle just three or four lines on a page to create a form. He knows how to deceive the viewers mind into seeing a form in the space where there is nothing.

Posted on: 2007/11/1 12:15
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: the essence of something
Cant Stay Offline
Joined:
2003/8/1 23:57
From Hamina, Finland
Group:
村民 :: Villager
議長 :: Mod
師導士会 :: Shidoshikai
Posts: 1682
Offline
Quote:

Papa-san wrote:
I'm not going to interpret this any farther, if you take something from another art and bring it into what you do, YOU are the one responsible for that ---- no one else. I repeat what Dr Hatsumi said to me and that was as I said, the only test is "does it work".


I agree on the pint "the responsibility is the bringers", yes.

On the "worked for real"... if one has successfully defendes oneself against two attackers with a 360 degree spinning back hook kick, then that individual knows it worked. Then. Againt that attack. At that time.

But, heck, my "real situations" are mostly running away from possible fights, so...

Posted on: 2007/11/1 18:17
_________________
Ari Julku
Shidōshi
Bujinkan Ōari Dōjō
(Bujinkan Budōka since 1985)
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: the essence of something
Deleted_
Defining "works" is very difficult.

Does it work once? Only in certain situations? Does it work 5 times and then you injure yourself due to poor body mechanics? Against one attacker? Multiple attackers? Only in heavy clothing? Only against smaller people? Against bigger people? Only if you have strecthced that morning? Only when you are fresh and full of energy? When you are tired?

The list can go on and on.

Using "does it work" as a criteria can be dangerous and it definitely based on your perspective at the given time. I used to do many things that "worked", but have since leanred how wrong they were as they don't follow the basic precepts of that the Bujinkan arts are founded on.

Posted on: 2007/11/2 5:08
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: the essence of something
Permanent Village Fixture
Joined:
2005/9/29 16:19
From Austin,TX
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 392
Offline
"the basic precepts of that the Bujinkan arts are founded on."

That was sort of my original question. What are the basic precepts?

As othes have pointed out, Soke constantly shows examples of his Budo Taijutsu being immediately applied to things like guns, pens, etc. He appears to have absolutely no issue with using a "non-traditional" weapon and still calling it Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu.

So....what defines Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu? If not the "props" used, then what?

Posted on: 2007/11/2 6:48
_________________
......Samuel Zavaletta

Please be careful not to have preconceptions, and to always remember the idea of truth-and-falsehood.
-- Hatsum
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: the essence of something
Cant Stay Offline
Joined:
2003/8/1 23:57
From Hamina, Finland
Group:
村民 :: Villager
議長 :: Mod
師導士会 :: Shidoshikai
Posts: 1682
Offline
Quote:

noname wrote:
So....what defines Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu? If not the "props" used, then what?

The... Taijutsu?

Like in the gun example given... the way I've been taught these in Bujinkan... it relies on the same Taijutsu as the rest of... the things. And these things come from the schools that form the Bujinkan martial art.

Posted on: 2007/11/2 7:10
_________________
Ari Julku
Shidōshi
Bujinkan Ōari Dōjō
(Bujinkan Budōka since 1985)
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: the essence of something
Deleted_
Quote:

JeffMueller wrote:
Defining "works" is very difficult.



Actually - it is impossible. Nothing works everytime. And plenty of complete manure works sometimes...

The statement is a cop out for adding whatever you want to the BJK arts. It also removes subjective critical scrutiny of instruction... because of the "well it works for me" escape clause...

As if 9 arts isn't enough without "Daniel's-totally-awesome-move".

Soke's statement is rope. Find a tree and make a noose if you want. I will just coil it up and put it in my bag....

-Daniel

Posted on: 2007/11/2 7:27
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer



« 1 (2) 3 4 5 »




[Advanced Search]


Today's Sponsor