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Re: Buji Rules?
村長 :: Sonchou
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Quote:
He chose one teacher after having trained with many teachers.


Did he train with the other teachers at the same time, or one at a time? (Please cite your source of information.)

Shawn

Posted on: 2008/12/17 9:49
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Re: Buji Rules?
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Not sure about Hatsumi sensei. As far as Takamatsu sensei is concerned here's something interesting:

1907/08
"Takamatsu gets grom Mizuta Tadafusa the menkyo kaiden of the Takagi Yoshin-ryu line"

1908
"Takamatsu's grandfather Toda Shinryuken dies on the 6th of September 1908. Beforehand, he gives to his grandchild the densho fo the Kumogakure-ryu, Koto-ryu, Gyokushin-ryu,Shinden Fudo-ryu, Gyokko-ryu, and Togakure-ryu, thus chosing him to be the heir of these six traditions."


Takamatsu Toshitsugu the last shinobi by Wolfgang Ettig(Pg. 194)

Posted on: 2008/12/18 14:03
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Re: Buji Rules?
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I seem to also recall Ishitani-sensei passing away in 1909...

Posted on: 2008/12/18 17:14
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Re: Buji Rules?
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Holy thread-drift Batman!

Posted on: 2008/12/18 17:53
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Re: Buji Rules?
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Time to lock the thread

Posted on: 2008/12/18 18:18
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Re: Buji Rules?
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It seems that Takamatsu sensei trained with more than one teacher simultaneously.




[sarcasm] I'm so shocked. [/sarcasm]


I'd bet money that Hatsumi sensei did as well.

Posted on: 2008/12/20 17:49
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Re: Buji Rules?
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Sarcasm aside, but what are you actually trying to convey here?

Posted on: 2008/12/20 18:26
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Re: Buji Rules?
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Quote:

noname wrote:
It seems that Takamatsu sensei trained with more than one teacher simultaneously.




[sarcasm] I'm so shocked. [/sarcasm]


I'd bet money that Hatsumi sensei did as well.


The issue isn't about training with more than one teacher, but about WHO those other teachers happen to be. We are talking about deeply personal issues in an art based around relationships.

In a McDojo, it may not matter quite as much. In Soke's Bujinkan, it does. Of course, if you are in a different "Bujinkan", I could see how that wouldn't matter as much either.

It all depends on what "Bujinkan" you are claiming to be a part of.

But that's a whole different topic...

Posted on: 2008/12/21 4:14
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Re: Buji Rules?
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I would like to offer the following quote* to both the OP and noname. While not made in reference to Bujinkan Budo, it could well have been.

"Once, my teacher, Shimizu Takaji Sensei (1896-1978), told me not to copy the jo practiced by his junior fellow student Otofuji Ichizo Sensei. Unless one carefully reflects on what Shimizu Sensei really meant, this statement can be easily misunderstood. He knew that there were some differences between his way of using jo and tachi, and the way in which Otofuji Sensei used these weapons. Even in kata bujutsu,[2] it is very natural for there to be differences in the form. That's because different people have different levels of technical understanding and different mindsets. This leads them to make movements in slightly different ways and they pass on these individual characteristics in their teaching. Shimizu Sensei was afraid that young students would notice these differences, get confused or suspicious, and think that one way or the other was wrong. He seemed to have been concerned about the inevitable errors that result when a student is unable or unwilling to follow just one teacher. He urged me to follow a single teacher, to the greatest extent possible, and to avoid confusing myself unnecessarily by looking around at other teachers.

Having more than one teacher can create serious problems in your training. On the other hand, insisting that students blindly "follow one and only one teacher" can result in separatist cliques and prevent students of different teachers from being able to practice together. This distasteful situation still occurs in the Japanese martial arts world. The only solution is to wait for the spiritual growth of both the teacher and the disciple; then students can train under a single teacher and still benefit from interacting with students from other groups."

*Full article online here.

Posted on: 2008/12/22 3:12
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Re: Buji Rules?
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Although this may only apply to those residing in Japan we were told by soke years ago that it is important to get permission from the shihan you are training with prior to training with another shihan within the Bujinkan. This is to ensure that there are no problems or misunderstandings between teachers – as well as being courteous.

I think it is good to train in other styles of budo such as judo and kendo outside of the Bujinkan also but if you want to train with another school I think it is also important that everyone is clear and happy about it and the relationship between the teachers and heads of different schools.

In training in very similar schools such as a different branch or a breakaway group of the Bujinkan or one of it’s ryuha then I think the decision should be taken more seriously than doing an unrelated budo or sporting style.

As for the rule I think that both Harada-sensei and Ohashi-sensei have given as good an answer from a senior a person as you are likely to get.

Anyway, rather than focussing on who you shouldn’t be training with I think it’s much better to focus on who you should be training with.

Posted on: 2008/12/22 10:43
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