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Technic they dont teach somewhere else than japan ?
Active Kutakian
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Maybe you are tired of my newbie question but im still wanted to learn more. I saw Togakure Ryu from Hatsumi, and alot of technic like Shigegaeshi are not required by any dojo for ranking. Why ? Is there some things people dont want to teach or doesnt know. It's like shurikenjutsu
http://usuarios.lycos.es/buyusan/twodescphotos6.html
There's alot of technics on this page, i saw a few from SKH dvd but the technik on this page , i cant see them somewhere else.

Posted on: 2004/7/5 10:54
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Re: Technic they dont teach somewhere else than japan ?
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Theres alot of techniques in the bujinkan... taken for granted that most people aren't going to list them all one by one on a website... im finding it hard to understand your question, are you saying why isnt there more *listed* techniques available outside of japan? (which I can be pretty sure that this is not the case at all) or are you asking why arent there more techniques listed freely to the public on websites etc?

Posted on: 2004/7/5 11:45
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Re: Technic they dont teach somewhere else than japan ?
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Im not questionning listing because im sure that it can be long and not very usefull to list togakure technic one by one. Is there "secret" anymore ? Why some technics need to be granted for rank and studied, and some dont ?
When i want to study something, I want to know the entire containt( Ex: programming )

Posted on: 2004/7/5 12:22
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Re: Technic they dont teach somewhere else than japan ?
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Sensei often says that the training we are doing is completely different from scholastic education, where everything that you "need to know" is just laid out one item at a time like a checklist of things that need to be completed one by one. He also chooses to allow individual teachers in the Bujinkan a huge amount of freedom in what they choose to focus on and teach.

Your question is very much like asking, "What should parents teach their children?" We all could possibly agree on some *principles* that parents should probably teach their children, like generosity, kindness, etc., but the "techniques" that each family uses to teach these things to their children is different.

Just as there is no set "curriculum" by which parents all over the world instruct their children on how to become responsible, mature adults, so there is no set curriculum by which Bujinkan teachers are required to instruct their students. Each Dojo "family" has their own way of doing things, their own way of imparting the same principles to their students, depending largely on the instructor's own priorities, focus, training history and views on training. This infinite variety is one of the huge strengths of the Bujinkan, imho.

Shawn

Posted on: 2004/7/5 12:51
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Re: Technic they dont teach somewhere else than japan ?
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Shawn,

man that was well put!

Great analogy!

Posted on: 2004/7/5 13:11
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Re: Technic they dont teach somewhere else than japan ?
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Thanks for the good reply, that's explain alot of things. Because dojo dont have the same requirement for belt. I didnt make the link with my style, because we do this also.You must have very confident in your teacher, because you dont know if he teach you what you realy needs. Is always like this in martial arts. In kenpo, each student of the organisation must meet at the end the same requirement because the exam is taked on the main dojo. We have a writing exam ( History, Kata, Techniques ) and a physical exam(pushup,situp,pullovers,fighting,kicks etc). I understand this , but it very strange that some technic seem to be forgiving or dont show(Ex:poisson from densho, hatsumi refused to talk about this)
I think the information should be free.Yes dangerous information can be gived to bad people, but with internet and all this, this is already the case.
So when i see only one website about Togakure shuriken jutsu technics, and want a dvd about this , and kinda dissapointed it's why i still think some technics are keeped secret.

Posted on: 2004/7/5 13:28
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Re: Technic they dont teach somewhere else than japan ?
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why should all information regarding bujinkan be free? would you want people learning your kenpo without knowing how to apply it properly and to not have the right frame of mind/heart to use it properly? this is one of the reasons why the information on the internet is restricted... one of the main quotes should be referred to here, "shut up and train" IMHO... I don't understand why you're dissapointed, wouldn't you be dissapointed if all your kenpo was displayed on a webpage for every stranger to take and try and use for themselves?

Posted on: 2004/7/5 13:41
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Re: Technic they dont teach somewhere else than japan ?
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A few years ago soke was doing a lot of stuff with teppan and shuriken. Most of it was about using it inside taijutsu and creating space to throw. He made a very interesting statement that people who just stand in front of a tatami mat and practice throwing have missed the point as these are easily dodged. How to use shuriken inside taijutsu and understanding distance becomes the important thing.

So basics are important. Just collecting knowledge from the internet and DVD is worse than useless - a collector will never become a real budoka. Only after years of hard training in the dojo will all the secrets open up to you. I believe the soke is at the high level he is now because of the training he has done not because of any special knowledge.


Posted on: 2004/7/5 13:55
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Re: Technic they dont teach somewhere else than japan ?
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Quote:

Flopik wrote:
I think the information should be free.


It is just your personal desire, isn't it?
Information on Budo techniques is not free in most cases. You should learn only what your teacher allows you to learn at the moment. Budo instruction should be based on the good relationship between you and your teacher.
(If you don't have a teacher yet, you should find one and ask him/her.)

Posted on: 2004/7/5 13:59
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Re: Technic they dont teach somewhere else than japan ?
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Definately a good analogy shawn... and it also helps to explain ranks as well, as some parents are harder on their children then others, etc. And hence some dojo's won't test certain techniques for certain rankings.

Quote:

Flopik wrote:
Thanks for the good reply, that's explain alot of things. Because dojo dont have the same requirement for belt. I didnt make the link with my style, because we do this also.You must have very confident in your teacher, because you dont know if he teach you what you realy needs. Is always like this in martial arts. In kenpo, each student of the organisation must meet at the end the same requirement because the exam is taked on the main dojo. We have a writing exam ( History, Kata, Techniques ) and a physical exam(pushup,situp,pullovers,fighting,kicks etc). I understand this , but it very strange that some technic seem to be forgiving or dont show(Ex:poisson from densho, hatsumi refused to talk about this)
I think the information should be free.Yes dangerous information can be gived to bad people, but with internet and all this, this is already the case.
So when i see only one website about Togakure shuriken jutsu technics, and want a dvd about this , and kinda dissapointed it's why i still think some technics are keeped secret.


Wow bud... just wow...
Information should not be freely put on the internet... from my understanding Hatsumi is very upset by the amount of info that is on the net as is...and I definetly don't think that you are thinking about what you are saying here.... you want hatsumi to release the information on making poison??? wtf? I'm fairly certain that Hatsumi has/will release that information but certainly not to the general public!!!

I really don't want to rant so I'll keep it short... but that comment struck a bad note with me!

I'm still having a hard time understanding why you are 'dissapointed' that you cannot find shurikan stuff on the internet. Why is it important that you learn shurikan so badly, you aren't training under an instructor currently, and maybe that is why your questioning seems off to me...but what is it that you want to know about shurikan??? maybe you should ask those specific questions so that they can be answered for you.

I have a feeling that the problem here is that you have not been instructed yet and therefore you aren't understanding the application of taijutsu to shurikan? I also think that when/if you recieve instruction in the bujinkan you will shortly realise how powerful the basics are and why some stuff is not handed out to just anyone. I'm not sure about you but when I recieve information on such things as the location of arteries where/how to cut them and how long it takes someone to passout/die from said cut, now I'm not sure how you would feel about recieving such information as the above example...but I've gotta admit that for the longest time it just felt like a great weight was placed upon my shoulders(and until I had developed more spiritually I was uneasy about having that knowledge).

Posted on: 2004/7/5 14:03
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