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Posted on: 2004/8/16 13:43
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Re: A Question from an Outsider
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Quote:

Danny wrote:
Our art of Budo Taijutsu is a true combat art, and would be comparable to the training a soldier receives in basic training. ...
A public display of skill would be pointless.
They wouldn't see anything!
It is hard enough for us to see what Sensei is showing us in class, let alone a crowd of random people fifty yards away.

So, competition would be counter-productive for us. Our highest level is the ability to fight without effort and without anyone being able to see it.

Training for a competition where people could see your movements would actually retard your growth.


I'd like to give my opinion on this.

I don't think we can be compaired to 'basic training' ... I'd honestly say special forces...that is what the ninja of old were...and thrown into such a situation that is what we would be!

As for competition...I think that you might be describing a demonstration not a competition.

YuTaiSheng, In BBT we learn a non-competition combat art. Competition would not go very smoothly because people would get hurt very badly and very permanently. It must be stressed that (in my opinion) most BBT practitioners feel that they are learning a combat form, not some self defence class.

As for whether I feel that BBT is the best art... it is the best for me ... obviously my opinion goes further than this...but this is my basic belief in all martial arts you should study what you think is the best for you!!!

I believe that every martial has something to offer, some have very little to offer and some have more than a life times worth.

There are many martial arts that have steamed from the same roots as some of our schools. But I believe that BBT is the best for me because it is quick and to the point. We also have 9 different schools...so we tend to have a lot of information available to us (and the basics of all nine are taijutsu, so its not an akward transition).

In BBT we have everything that has any combat application. I am often asked how I would define BBT ... but it is not a throwing style OR a wrist lock school OR a kicking OR punching OR weapons....etc. IT IS ALL OF THEM AND MORE. This is why there is a feeling of the BBT being the best...Because it has everything.

At the same time there are definitely many great martial artists out there who have never trained in BBT it is not the only path but I feel it is my true path. and obviously not everyone takes the same out of it or feels the same way. But I feel that this training has and will make me a better human being. Many styles gain confidence through competition... I would rather humbly walk do the street at night knowing that I don't have to look over my shoulder every second. At least in my training I have been taught spiritual thinking as well as destructive techniques... this is something that many 'outsiders' do not think of when they first hear of what we learn... personally I don't want to fight but I know that I can if I need to. Unfortunately when that time comes I won't have any ternamant trophies to hit them over the head with

Posted on: 2004/8/16 14:20
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Posted on: 2004/8/16 18:12
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Re: A Question from an Outsider
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Quote:

Jon wrote:


I'd like to give my opinion on this.

I don't think we can be compaired to 'basic training' ... I'd honestly say special forces...that is what the ninja of old were...and thrown into such a situation that is what we would be!



I feel a bit silly for even stepping into this one, but your comment sparked a memory of something I heard before.
I was at a training session/seminar being conducted by Phil Relnick and Quintin Chambers. They both studied Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu (TSKSR) and Relnick Sensei is the highest ranked member of TSKSR in the western world and he has learned the ninjutsu that is contained in TSKSR.
This is what I remember him saying about ashigaru, the high level bushi, and the ninja.

The ashigaru are the foot soldiers that do the "basic training". They learn a dozen or so kata and are ready in a matter of months to fight with a weapon or two and are not really taught a large body of knowledge. The upper echelon samurai were given a broad training with many weapons, lots of tactics, specialized warfare etc and were expected to be prepared for anything and everything. I read in one of the records for my particular ryu that this was for about 7 years. It could vary I suppose based on the needs of the fighting at the time. Relnick Sensei compared these types of samurai to modern day special forces, as they were condoned and sponsored by local governments and they did recieve special training. He likened the ninja and ninjutsu as being a type of guerrilla warfare along the lines of rebels and mercenaries and anything that is not openly sponsored or condoned. What they did ran counter to the culture of the Samurai.

Posted on: 2004/8/16 19:54
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Re: A Question from an Outsider
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interesting, seems like the former are pure cannon fodder, and the latter sent in to clean up the mess and come home.
so do we wish to learn an art to become expendable, or an art to refine us and hopefully be reusable.


if you copy your teacher parrot fashion, i think you are studying the art. if you understand what he is doing and adapt it to you , you practice the art.

my friend does the new age wrestling and is starting kickboxing,

i do bbt, i don't care which is better, only which is better for me. i hear people say in all these sport event's those ground fighters alway's clean up, which is great. the boxer or kickboxer throws 5 to ten punches, the wrestler wears a few and closes the gap, takes them down and does his stuff.
but remove the gloves and how many good knuckle/elbow or headbutts could they take, with little or no effect?
5 to 10 , 3 or 4 , just one?( hope that is not too off topic)

imho real combat can never be sport, but each to there own. however passionate we are about bbt, and i'm sure chris is about tsksr(hope that is right) we cannot 'save' the rest, 'ours is the best' or we are no better than narrow minded bible bashers, and look how much trouble they have caused in the world with their do gooding.ie. tameing the 'savages' around the globe, force feeding their beliefs.

live and let live,

dazza

Posted on: 2004/8/16 22:22
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Re: A Question from an Outsider
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Ok, I understand that taijutsu is focused on combat while wushu is more about competition. But it seems like the more we discuss the further apart our worlds grow. Is there a way for to continue without isolating ourselves? Do a wushu practitioner and taijutsu practitioner have any common ground to stand on?

Posted on: 2004/8/17 2:59
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Re: A Question from an Outsider
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I think that that might be a bit off course, I've only been training for about a year so I could very well be wrong but I've been equating taijutsu with having the most efficient body movement/language using the least amount of force to achieve the set goal. Actions don't have to be centered on combat to involve taijutsu.

As stated, this is just my take on it and some of the more experienced practitioners on this forum will most probably have a different view about taijutsu.

Posted on: 2004/8/17 5:15
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Andreas Goeransson
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Re: A Question from an Outsider
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Quote:

YuTaiSheng wrote:
Is there a way for to continue without isolating ourselves? Do a wushu practitioner and taijutsu practitioner have any common ground to stand on?


We're all just people.

Quote:

Actions don't have to be centered on combat to involve taijutsu.

I don't see it like that.

In Japan, martial arts are refered to as "Budo". 2 Chinese characters; "BU" meaning "Warrior" and "DO" meaning "Path" or "Way". Taking the "BU" out of "Budo" is like taking the tea out of "tea ceremony". You loose the essence and it becomes something else.

Posted on: 2004/8/17 8:41
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Posted on: 2004/8/17 9:09
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Re: A Question from an Outsider
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Quote:

YuTaiSheng wrote:
Ok, I understand that taijutsu is focused on combat while wushu is more about competition. But it seems like the more we discuss the further apart our worlds grow. Is there a way for to continue without isolating ourselves? Do a wushu practitioner and taijutsu practitioner have any common ground to stand on?


Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu is wushu (lit. martial art). Wushu competition occurs at a wushu tournament. Is the ground common enough?

Honestly, your perspective is welcome but I wonder if you have a grip on what exactly your point is.

Posted on: 2004/8/17 9:41
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