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Re: So how many shihans do have 15th dan?
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Yes, and if you are given a rank by Soke, you have to train so hard that you can become worth the rank. It's up to you.

Keep going!

Posted on: 2004/12/18 22:51
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Re: So how many shihans do have 15th dan?
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Divot wrote:
Then the bigger question is, perhaps, "Why doesn't someone get a Menkyo Kaiden in one of the Ryuha at 10th dan, then?"

The big answer is, perhaps, "Because that's not what Bujinkan Budô Taijutsu is for".

If Bujinkan Budô Taijutsu is not enough for you, stop whining and find something that is.

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Could it be that roundeyes aren't getting access to the same material?

Oh grow up.

Posted on: 2004/12/19 10:04
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Re: So how many shihans do have 15th dan?
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Actually Sensei has given out Menkyo Kaiden in several ryu to several of his senior students.

Posted on: 2004/12/23 1:22
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Re: So how many shihans do have 15th dan?
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pf123 wrote:
Actually Sensei has given out Menkyo Kaiden in several ryu to several of his senior students.


I think it's important to contextualize what you are saying rather than dropping something like that. You end up feeding a fire that has no need for oxygen, imo.

Yes, Soke has given out Menkyo Kaiden in particular Ryuha to a few of the Japanese senior students. For example, Oguri-sensei is Menkyo Kaiden holder of Takagiyoshin Ryu. This point is actually referenced in U?G.P! as Soke chided Oguri-sensei one day in practice.

On p.170, it reads: “Oguri. Go up and teach anything from Takagiyôshin Ryû...using the jo.” (Oguri-sensei starts examining his mental encyclopedia of techniques as he makes his way to the center of the circle with his uke.) “As a menkyo holder in Takagiyôshin Ryû, you should be able to come up with something interesting....” (He does)

However, the important contextualization that you ignored was that Soke did distribute Menkyo Kaiden in particular Ryuha during a time when he was extremely ill, when he thought that the Ryuha would die with him if he did not "get his house in order" so to speak. He spread the schools among several of his senior students at the time in order to protect the lineage. It must have been a very difficult decision to admit one's mortality at such a young age, but as Soke, he did what he had to do. That's why "the Japanese" have Menkyo Kaiden in particular Ryuha and the "round-eyes" do not. At the time, there weren't many round-eyes to choose from.

Since that time, Soke's teaching has focused on the essence of martial arts as preserved in the shells of the Ryuha and the techniques within the densho. Soke does not give rank in any particular Ryuha, and he does not given Menkyo Kaiden in any particular Ryuha TO MY KNOWLEDGE.

Although onsenwadokodesuka mentioned Arnaud's Menkyo Kaiden, I do not believe it is in any particular Ryuha. Seeing how this thread was focused on the present availability of Menkyo Kaiden in particular Ryuha to the "roundeyes," I believe that is what Jeff Mueller meant when he said, "Maybe it's simply because Soke doesn't give out Menkyo Kaiden... to anyone!"

Hope that clarifies what could have been a messy "Soke hates the roundeyes and denies them the inner teachings" malarkey-in-the-making.

Cheers!

-ben

Posted on: 2004/12/23 4:47
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Re: So how many shihans do have 15th dan?
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Quote:

bencole wrote:

Since that time, Soke's teaching has focused on the essence of martial arts as preserved in the shells of the Ryuha and the techniques within the densho. Soke does not give rank in any particular Ryuha, and he does not given Menkyo Kaiden in any particular Ryuha TO MY KNOWLEDGE.



I don't think so. I heard that Hatsumi sensei gave two Ryuha's Menkyo Kaiden to his two senior Japanease Shihan in these days after "at that time". It was obvious for whom attended at Daikomyosai in 2003.

Posted on: 2004/12/23 7:02
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Re: So how many shihans do have 15th dan?
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Quote:

Tamatora wrote:
I don't think so. I heard that Hatsumi sensei gave two Ryuha's Menkyo Kaiden to his two senior Japanease Shihan in these days after "at that time". It was obvious for whom attended at Daikomyosai in 2003.


Hi Harada-san, thanks for posting. I hope your research is going well....

I'm unsure what Ryuha and which Shihan you are speaking about.... Could you be more specific, or was this something that was privately told to you by Soke?

I wasn't in attendance for that Daikomyosai. Was it mentioned during the general training such that it was recorded on tape? Perhaps someone who has the video tape could take a look and see what the announcement was....

That's the first time I've ever heard of Ryuha specific Menkyo Kaiden since the days of distribution to Oguri, Manaka, etc.

Thanks for your clarification.

Regards,

-ben

Posted on: 2004/12/23 8:38
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Re: So how many shihans do have 15th dan?
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Hope that clarifies what could have been a messy "Soke hates the roundeyes and denies them the inner teachings" malarkey-in-the-making.
-ben


well... b4 us 'roundeyes' start to complain about how potentially racist our beloved sensei is or is not I thought that I would hopefully end the ludacris notion.

I have an idea lets think
-Soke recently wrote a book with mr. cole ... hmm lets ignore him he mustn't know anything
-Soke has awarded high ranks to 'roundeyes'
-The Japanese shihan have been training with Soke for far longer than most none Japanese....

and last but certainly not least
- Soke opened his art to the world and has devotedly taught practitioners of all races.

whether he does keep the top secrets of a Japanese art for the Japanese or not WE SHOULD ALL BE THANKFUL that we have the privaledge to train in his art. There is soo much that he has already given us... do you feel that you have run out of things to improve upon and now require menkyo kaiden?
As a side comment... these arts were developed by mortal man (or possibly by women in the case of a certain princess) it is not too outlandish to think that upon reaching the skill level of Shihan you would be capable of developing your own Densho.

PS: 'Understand Good Play' is for some reason not being shipped in Canada from chapters at the moment... I emailed them to correct their mispelling of soke's name (HatsuNi for some reason) .... anyhow, was wondering if there is a reason for this?

Posted on: 2004/12/23 17:29
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Re: So how many shihans do have 15th dan?
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whether he does keep the top secrets of a Japanese art for the Japanese or not WE SHOULD ALL BE THANKFUL that we have the privaledge to train in his art. There is soo much that he has already given us...


good post! soory for abusing it

is there realy anyone who believes in the fairy tale of secret knowledge, hidden from "gaijin"-bujinkan-students"?
(Jon <- i don´t think you are one of the ´believers´!)

For what reason should one first open up his art art for(nearly)everyone and cut off some important details in a second step? This wouldn´t make any sense, as far as i see.
Maybe there are parts of our art which are not taught, but there are things that can´t be taught. E.g. have you ever been trying to teach experience, courage or the ability of being happy with any situation which comes up?

sorry for exaggerating the offtopic-tendeces,

a good and peaceful holiday season to everyone who is celebrating it!

Burkhard

Posted on: 2004/12/23 20:57
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Re: How many shihans have 15th dan?
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Sensei makes those choices as he should. I do think that if you train in this art and since Sensei is the authority about what is beneficial to this art, that one should accept his choices. Unless you wish to proclaim yourself more expert then Sensei, which would get a continuous belly laugh from those who know Sensei and his expertise. I didn't ask him "why" he promoted me to 15th, I figured that he had his reasons and now I would work very hard to justify his choice, to not fail him or make him regret his choice. There is so much more to this art then the physical techniques, no, there is no "Secret" training, but there is the application of this arts principles in your daily life. If you do that you have a much greater understanding of our art. It is also the seeking on your own, using your own mind to understand that which can not be taught. Sensei doesn't want carbon copies of himself, he wants "artists" who shine on their own.

Ed Martin aka Papa-san

Posted on: 2005/2/28 13:53
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