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Re: Kihon Happo
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Omote gyaku ken sabaki? As in "fist evasion" or as in "sword evasion"? I assume it to be the "fist evasion"? I always knew that as "omote gyaku tsuki".

But in general, the way you tell the story, is how I heared it as well.
Many teachers followed Manaka sensei there and replaced omote gyaku tsuki bij oni kudaki.
Yet, omote gyaku is basically the same as musha dori... especially when one takes in account "gyaku musha dori" and "ura oni kudaki", which make the circle complete.
Others added ganseki nage... only to find out that ganseki and musō dori are similar.
I even heared about "take ori", but that again would be similar to omote and ura gyaku.

So one might virtually say -and I'm going very very bold in here- that there are only four techniques in torite gohō no kata.

Now that I look again... what is very strange in your list, is that there is no musō dori but ganseki AND omote gyaku tsuki.
Are you sure about this?

Posted on: 2005/5/9 14:56
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Re: Kihon Happo
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Quote:
Yet, omote gyaku is basically the same as musha dori...


Hmmh? Well, in a way, yes. Depending how you perform it, maybe. In my view it is about different method though (though in both Uke is falling backwards); body control via wrist, or via elbow. I remember Hatsumi-sôke speaking about the Toride-ways as "Jûji"; outwards (Omotegyaku), inwards (Uragyaku), backwards (Mushadori), forwards (Gansekinage). So in that - four Waza, yes.

The Omotegyaku tsuki (or Ken sabaki) can be seen as "there might be Daken involved with grappling!". Though, replacing it with Onikudaki... Which is in a way the same as Mushadori

Quote:
Now that I look again... what is very strange in your list, is that there is no musō dori but ganseki AND omote gyaku tsuki.


The way listed previously (from Someya-shihan) is the way I've been taught by most of the teachers I've trained with during my 20 years, Japanese and European. Though, some have changed to Onikudaki instead of Omotegyaku tsuki.

But, in the end, one should do as one's teacher does, right?!

EDIT: changed pointer to list of Waza

Posted on: 2005/5/9 17:54
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Ari Julku
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