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Re: Bo staff
Kutaki Postmaster
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2003/3/23 14:32
From Honolulu
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Quote:

Hachigoro wrote:
I might do that if I was posting on a BBS related to Takenokozoku Ryu or whatever you do is called. The fact is that this is a Bujinkan BBS so I think it's pretty presumptuous to be telling people what sort of bo they should be using for training if you haven't actually trained in the Bujinkan yourself.


Duncan it is Takenouchi Ryu, not hard to spell out unless you are deliberately being disrespectful. I can assume you speak Japanese from your website. Just an FYI last week someone on here asked if there is a Bujinkan training group in Hawaii. Before that person's account was closed being the nice guy I am I made the effort to make some calls and emails to see if I could put this person in touch with a Bujinkan training group here. I made a call to a man in Kapolei that I heard ran a group. Recently they stopped training due to not having a decent location. Being the nice guy I am I offered to let them use a location two nights a week, free of charge. This training space is not some gymnasium either it is a pretty nice spot. I did that because I have respect for the seniors I have met in the Bujinkan and I wanted to show it. If I wanted to be like you I could just as easily thrown them out after giving them an ass beating. I have shown respect for your tradition and your teachers, is it too hard to reciprocate? If you can show me anywhere where I have slandered your school or disrespected it then I will apologize. Takamatsu Sensei was friends with Takenouchi Toichiro Hisanori, the father of Takenouchi Toichiro the current soke, and Takenouchi Nobuyoshi, I doubt Takamatsu Sensei ever had trouble writing it correctly or would have referred to it as a "sword dance" school. If you had a clue about Takeonuchi Ryu then you would know that it has a close relationship and history with two schools of the Bujinkan.

If you are wondering why I am on this board it is because I have a legitimate interest in all Japanese budo as a researcher. I am also a student of one Hatsumi Sensei's earlier students. If you disagree with my opinion on using hardwood weapons then please do so with out attacking my school or tradition. Or do those guys have you to thank for a nasty eviction?

Posted on: 2005/4/4 14:06
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Christopher Moon
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Re: Bo staff
Kutaki Postmaster
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2003/3/23 14:32
From Honolulu
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Duncan,

Are you a student of Shiraishi Sensei? I was chatting with Mr. Gray once about how Shiraishi Sensei is very good friends with Kouno Sensei, a high ranking instructor of Takenouchi Ryu in Tokyo. I know for a fact that Shiraishi Sensei has been a guest of Kouno Sensei's dojo as both men are well known for having very excellent ukemi skills. I have a feeling Shiraishi Sensei could say Takenouchi Ryu without bungling it. Just a hunch.

Posted on: 2005/4/4 14:13
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Christopher Moon
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Re: Bo staff
村長 :: Sonchou
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2003/1/24 17:34
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Guys, time to cool your jets and let the steam off your keyboards. I'm sure there is a way to discuss the Bo issues in a way that is mutually congeniable^h^h^h^l. Please find that way.

Shawn

Posted on: 2005/4/4 15:00
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Re: Bo staff
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Your right in that I don't have a clue about the Takenouchi Ryu. I wonder if your really that offended by me having a bit of fun with the name or the real reason is that I've been disrespectful to you?

Anyway, I still stand by my central point. Unless you actually train in the Bujinkan then you have no right to be making comments about which type of practice weapons we should be using. The reason we also practice making proper contact with targets is because we are a "martial art" and not a "martial dance". This is what Hatsumi-sensei told me - as I said before if you want further explanation ask him yourself.

So without putting too fine a point on it. Most schools of kobudo stop their strike just before impact - we also strike through the target and the only way to do that without serious injury or death is to use a safe weapon.

_MSC_CLICK_TO_OPEN_IMAGE

Posted on: 2005/4/4 15:06
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Re: Bo staff
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Quote:

Hello Duncan Mitchell ('Hachigoro'),

Your Kutaki no Mura karma has been adjusted down from 6 to 5.

The reason given by the moderator was:
-----
Hatsumi Sensei may have referred to other martial arts as \"martial dance,\" but
I\'m sure he doesn\'t say this to the face of other martial artists.
-----


I've heard him critise another person's martial art to his face and he has publically critisised others approach in books and magazine articles. Why wouldn't he?

I would prefer to be upfront than say one thing behind a persons back and another to their face.

Posted on: 2005/4/4 15:29
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Re: Bo staff
Kutaki Postmaster
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2003/3/23 14:32
From Honolulu
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Quote:

Hachigoro wrote:
Your right in that I don't have a clue about the Takenouchi Ryu. I wonder if your really that offended by me having a bit of fun with the name or the real reason is that I've been disrespectful to you?


Probably a little of both. Should I treat your fellow Bujinkan members that are using my place rent free the same way as you have been? These things work both ways. I have absolutely no obligation to be altruistic.

Quote:
Anyway, I still stand by my central point. Unless you actually train in the Bujinkan then you have no right to be making comments about which type of practice weapons we should be using. The reason we also practice making proper contact with targets is because we are a "martial art" and not a "martial dance". This is what Hatsumi-sensei told me - as I said before if you want further explanation ask him yourself.


Where was I telling anyone what they were doing was right or wrong? I merely offered my opinion on training weapons. Actually I have every right to comment on someone's training ways, is that not what goes on all the time with these kind of boards? I have certainly seen plenty of commenting on other schools or ways on here. If Shawn does not like it he has every right to boot me and I would have no hard feelings towards him if he did. If you do not like it you have every right to rebut it. Whether or not Hatsumi Sensei thinks it is a martial art or sword dance is strictly his opinion, it is not a fact. His own teacher seemed to not think so, there is a rather large collection of letters and training notes between the two headmasters.

Quote:

So without putting too fine a point on it. Most schools of kobudo stop their strike just before impact - we also strike through the target and the only way to do that without serious injury or death is to use a safe weapon.


Through one way or another I manage to have about 60 tapes by Hatsumi Sensei, I have not seen any where he or any of his students have made a blow to the head of a uke with a weapon. They stop short. I have yet to see on any video anything that is done differently then in my own school. Just as a follow up in Takenouchi Ryu when doing strikes or kicks we are taught to follow through with 70% unless it is the face, head, or groin and to train as if our life is on the line. I have zero doubt I can handle myself when it counts.


Posted on: 2005/4/4 15:39
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Christopher Moon
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Re: Bo staff
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2003/3/23 14:32
From Honolulu
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Posts: 172
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Quote:

Hachigoro wrote:
I've heard him critise another person's martial art to his face and he has publically critisised others approach in books and magazine articles. Why wouldn't he?

I would prefer to be upfront than say one thing behind a persons back and another to their face.


Duncan did you not just write that I have no right to comment on the Bujinkan if I don't study within the Bujinkan? Your two statements would seem to clash. Not that I was actually commenting whether it was right or wrong, I just merely stated my own teacher's belief.

Posted on: 2005/4/4 15:59
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Christopher Moon
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Re: Bo staff
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I have been following this post and had to remark that in no place did Chris Moon tell anyone what they should do.
He just presented an opinion. I feel that Chris Moon is usually a valuable contributor to this website and would like to see him continue to contribute.
I believe that to call another budo a "martial-dance", especially if you do not have any direct experience with it,is ignorant and just wrong.
To change the discussion to something more positive and productive, perhaps a discussion can be started about the pros and cons of using soft/training weapons VS hard/real weapons.
A. Adika

Posted on: 2005/4/4 20:43
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Re: Bo staff
Cant Stay Offline
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2003/6/13 23:29
From Pennsylvania, USA
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It is very difficult to know exactly what a person's real intent is solely from reading words. This is unfortunately what happens on all these boards. I do think all of us owe respect to another for the effort they put into the study they have done in martial art. We are going to have differences of opinion, but it is from that very difference that we can re-evaluate our own in a new light and hopefully improve it. Chris I have very much appreciated your posts here on the numerous threads you have participated in and certainly appreciate your help to the Bujinkan group in Hawaii. I have also known Duncan for a long time and find it hard to think he meant any disrespect to you or your art. I have trained many times with him in Japan and been to his group in Brisbane, Australia so think I have a pretty accurate idea of who and what he is. Please accept that what has been posted here is no more than misunderstanding based on the lack of input that we normally would have from personal contact. I look forward to some time meeting you in person too.
Ed Martin aka Papa-san

Posted on: 2005/4/4 21:41
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