Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
Socialize
 

Recent Topics
Topic Replies Last Post
Wedding gift... can someone help me to translate it? 6 2018/6/30 20:50
Barga18
Aomori-Ken 0 2018/6/19 10:27
hanzo-tou
Certificates 0 2018/5/8 4:34
schistkicker
Home Project: Shadowbox 3 2018/4/25 21:44
roufus
Ichiba 0 2018/2/21 1:18
Dpinga

Browsing this Thread:   1 Anonymous Users



« 1 2 (3)


Re: Axe/hatchet/hawk in Bujinkan?
Village Old Timer
Joined:
2003/2/1 10:13
From San Francisco, California, USA
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 616
Offline
No disagreement here, Ed.

Quote:

dseago wrote:
This is a "tongue in cheek" question, meant humorously rather than seriously. . .


By the same token, as a military officer I understood that there was an occasional need for troops to jump out of perfectly good airplanes, but I could never personally relate well to the idea. . .

Posted on: 2005/3/16 4:58
_________________
Dale Seago
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Axe/hatchet/hawk in Bujinkan?
Permanent Village Fixture
Joined:
2004/7/22 1:25
From Leesburg, Florida, USA
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 295
Offline
How about this scenario...?

The bad guy has already pulled the trigger on the pistol and the bullet has left the barrel and has already covered the 6 feet of the 10 feet between you and him. What do you do now?

I guess my point is controlling or hording weapons isn't important, controlling the attacker is.

Simply put, throwing an axe at someone so I can take their weapon is pointless. Why do I want their weapon? Why are they trying to kill me? Is it to rob me?

There are many circumstances and sequences of events leading up to the scenario you described and there are reasons why someone would attack. When setting up a scenario, we need to not forget the motivation for the attack. Often times there are more subtle and effortless things that can be done before the bullet is on it's way (to use my scenario above) that would usurp the scenario entirely.

And I thought throwing the axe was more for fun.


However, I don't disgree that there are situations where it could be thrown. I guess anything could be thrown, just like shuriken. I am not disagreeing about throwing it, I guess I was rambling about the scenario.

Posted on: 2005/3/16 5:08
_________________
Train safely,
David Russ
Ocala Bujinkan Dojo
Florida Bujinkan Network
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Axe/hatchet/hawk in Bujinkan?
Permanent Village Fixture
Joined:
2003/7/5 15:45
From Toronto/Waterloo, Canada Eh!
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 339
Offline
Quote:

bigshadow wrote:
I firmly believe that if one devotes their efforts toward mastery of taijutsu, then the weapon matters not. No doubt that axes are "cool" weapons, I would love to learn how to throw a tomahawk. However, that is more out of curiosity than to become an expert at it. I feel that taijutsu will make anyone quite effective with any weapon, even those that may not appear to be weapons. They all require varying distances, timing, and movement. Just my thoughts about mastery of weapons.


I gotta agree with you on this one... taijutsu will help, thats why we can pick up anything and use it!

I would like to mention a few things now.
-In my opinion BJK at its early stages at least is not at all about specializing... but rather about getting rid of weaknesses.
-shurikan were used as distractions or poisoned when thrown... the likelyhood of a knife sticking in isn't that high... thrown weapons had/have their distinct advantages and times for use!!! so throwing an axe at someone with the intent of killing them is more movie than practical in my opinion
-I can see and would assume that axes were a very highly used weapon back in medieval times and such. As everyone had access to an axe... axes and knives were tools ... swords are 'weapons' not everyone had one, but most ppl had knives and axes and hunting spears/bows...

therefore an axe might be a practical weapon to learn to use... they're around... machette too I suppose

Ultimately though it comes down to whether you are plannign a full scale battle OR having to defend yourself with minimal planning involved. I think that as much as we love ken-jutsu and as much as we learn from it, it is less "practical" than say learning to use keys, pens, knives, belts, staves, etc.

I definetely think that I would prefer the spear/polearm as a middle aged warfare weapon, u could just attach a knife or blade to a stick and arrive at the battle...lol

*this type of discussion always makes me consider things with this art. the idea of "practicallity"
Q- is it practical to train in BJK to begin with?
A- I think so and I enjoy it so I'd do it anyways

Q- is it practical to train with a sword and other ancient type weapons?
A- as enjoyable as it is to learn them ... not so sure on practicallity ... I might encounter a long bladed weapon but I'd never had access to a real katana!!

I personally think that when a physical confrontation occurs I'm not likely going to be able to plan ahead ... I'd rather rely on my hands, my pocket change, pen, and other such things... and hell whenever I've had to check outside the house at night or whatnot I ussually grab 1or2 knives and a hanbo, not my ornamental swords or my compound bow, etc. I'd like to know other ppl's opinions of this...

Sorry for ranting on

Posted on: 2005/3/16 5:55
_________________
Jon
"Take this with a grain of salt, hell salt to taste"
“He who seeks knowledge begins with humbleness”, Buju Banton
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Axe/hatchet/hawk in Bujinkan?
Honorary Villager
Joined:
2004/10/20 23:03
From Durham, NC USA
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 39
Offline
Mr. Russ,
I should have written a little clearer to make my points. I did make mention in my scenario that I was speaking in a combat situation. We study an art that is rich in combat application and theory. Hence the reason I used that scenario. You probably aren't carrying around a suitable knife to throw or a tomahawk in a domestic situation. If you are I am sure that you(not specifically you) are violating several laws in your region, country, locale concerning concealed weapons, etc.
You make mention of controlling the opponent. Could throwing your weapon at him not be used as a form of control- to make him move a certain way?? For example, perhaps it could be used as a method to make him flee cover so that your comrades could take him out??
Why would you want his weapon?? In my scenario, on the battlefield in close quarters, it seems simple- he has his buddies fighting along side him, behind him, what have you - they might have guns, swords, etc - you don't. To be on somewhat equal footing you should probably have one too -right?? Some of the techniques that we are seeing this very year in Gyokko Ryu (at least in our dojo)are very good examples of unarmed .vs armed for this purpose.
I think this is a perfect example of Juppo Seissho(forgive my spelling). It is an option and your choice depending on the situation. How I got here I have no idea but it seems the right thing to analogize. Your mileage and thoughts may vary.....

Mr. Sageo- I never could figure out whay they wanted us to jump out of perfectly good airplanes either, but I suppose people that were alot smarter than me had a reason that they always seemed to fail to explain to us.

Ed Green

Posted on: 2005/3/16 6:02
_________________
Ed Green
www.Budo Weapons.com
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Axe/hatchet/hawk in Bujinkan?
Permanent Village Fixture
Joined:
2004/7/22 1:25
From Leesburg, Florida, USA
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 295
Offline
Mr. Green,

May call you Ed? Please call me David. I don't disgree with using it to throw. I was left a little confused about the why's for the attack and for my throwing it at him and the purpose I had for throwing it, based on the scenario you provided.

Quote:

You make mention of controlling the opponent. Could throwing your weapon at him not be used as a form of control- to make him move a certain way?? For example, perhaps it could be used as a method to make him flee cover so that your comrades could take him out??


Certainly, I think that would be a sort of metsubishi.(sp?)

Quote:

Why would you want his weapon?? In my scenario, on the battlefield in close quarters, it seems simple- he has his buddies fighting along side him, behind him, what have you - they might have guns, swords, etc - you don't. To be on somewhat equal footing you should probably have one too -right??


This just sounds to me like a battle of force (I need a bigger weapon because his is bigger than mine). This is much like two guys arm wrestling, the one with the bigger muscles wins.

Again, I don't disagree with the throwing of weapons, just when appropriate, I suppose. I am confused about the motivations of the scenario.




Posted on: 2005/3/16 6:46
_________________
Train safely,
David Russ
Ocala Bujinkan Dojo
Florida Bujinkan Network
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Axe/hatchet/hawk in Bujinkan?
Cant Stay Offline
Joined:
2003/6/13 23:29
From Pennsylvania, USA
Group:
村民 :: Villager
議長 :: Mod
師導士会 :: Shidoshikai
Posts: 1834
Offline
It is as in everything we do, dependant on the situation. As to whether or not you choose to learn throwing an axe, a knife, surikan or whatever it is a use of your limited resources. It will take TIME! That time must be taken from something else, and there is never enough time to learn EVERYTHING. So we pick and choose based on our perceptions of what is important or interesting to us personally. Obviously since taijutsu is involved in everything you do much of you time is best expended in learning that. I do think it valuable to first learn the things that will most likely face you in your "world" and after you have "dealt" with those move on the the "fun" or "interesting" branches that catch your fancy.
Ed Martin aka Papa-san

Posted on: 2005/3/16 10:58
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Axe/hatchet/hawk in Bujinkan?
Honorary Villager
Joined:
2004/10/20 23:03
From Durham, NC USA
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 39
Offline
Mr. Martin,
All I can say is AMEN!! I have enough trouble with Taijutsu.
But then I started my throwing 'career' many years before taijutsu so I became adept at that before. Kind of like the cart before the horse I suppose. However, this comment is directed to all interested, tomahawk usage is not only for throwing as discussed here. A very good example(s) of this is in the movie the Patriot with Mel Gibson. The tomahawk was also a very good close quarters combat weapon and very brutal. There are many other example I am sure can be found in other media but I found, for me, this was probably the best show of it's usage at that period in time. I also see some very good usages of Taijutsu along with it in those sequences- your mileage may vary.

Ed Green

Posted on: 2005/3/18 2:12
_________________
Ed Green
www.Budo Weapons.com
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Axe/hatchet/hawk in Bujinkan?
Permanent Village Fixture
Joined:
2004/7/22 1:25
From Leesburg, Florida, USA
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 295
Offline
Quote:

budoweapon wrote:
A very good example(s) of this is in the movie the Patriot with Mel Gibson.


Not trying to get off topic, but that is an awesome movie! That is what got me thinking of learning to throw the tomahawk.

Posted on: 2005/3/18 2:19
_________________
Train safely,
David Russ
Ocala Bujinkan Dojo
Florida Bujinkan Network
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Axe/hatchet/hawk in Bujinkan?
Just Passing Through
Joined:
2005/5/22 3:23
From severn, maryland
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 2
Offline
Since this is my first post, Hi, I'm Taj. I've been with Bujinkan for about 9 years and I've just moved back to America from the UK. I have an old Buj video (on a boat somewhere in the Atlantic)showing the battlefield ono in use. It's pretty cool, even if it appears slightly clumsy or slow. I've seen a demonstration of "Danish invaders at the Battle of Hastings" (12th Cen. England)wherein the 5 to 6 ft Danish axe was used to pull shields down so that a buddy could chop. Seeing this thing later thrown was scary. Also, among Slavic people, esp. Russian, there is a tradition of using a walking stick with a small axe head (more like a tomahawk) as the handle, "to have it when needed", as has been stated. I know the idea is not to specialize but I fall/fail to human nature; this, as well as the kama, is one of my favorites.

Posted on: 2005/5/27 2:18
_________________
taj kramer
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Axe/hatchet/hawk in Bujinkan?
Villager
Joined:
2005/2/10 1:45
From Greenville, MI
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 75
Offline
A close range throw is very reliable and sticks very hard/deep...can keep the sucker from getting away...And if its an axe you are throwing....Look out, it'll most likely knock the guy down. You simply have to retrieve it and continue on....A tomohawk also makes a powerful close combat weapon, the back and flat sides for smashin', a sharp blade for hooking,slicing, dicing, and just plain loping off stuff. My first Bujinkan teacher used it extensively. It was a great way to build forearm strength, we praticed kihon happo ans sanshin with them....Very kool addition to our traditional weapons training. That Giant axe ( the ONO war axe?) would be fun the try out. On the ancient battle field the axe was actually very common, King Richard the Lionheart used it quite often. Cuts thru about any type of armor, alot of them had a spike on the opposite side of the blade....pretty sweet weapon!

Posted on: 2005/7/30 10:53
_________________
David Fletcher
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer



« 1 2 (3)




[Advanced Search]


Today's Sponsor