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Re: 4-15-2005 Class Comments
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Quote:

Danny wrote:
IS there some reason you feel discussing these things might be inappropriate here on Kutaki?


No. The topics are OK this time. But they have to be (more) correct.

Quote:

If my Japanese translation is incorrect, then we have to talk to the translators! I asked two different translators about the correctness of my understanding last night.
I was hoping it was better than 50% correct...


Because they are native English speakers, it is easy for them to explain their understanding in English. But it is completely another thing if they can understand Soke's words correctly. This is the biggest problem with us. Please don't forget that none of us (including myself) is a professional interpreter.

I think you know I helped Doug and Bruce when they translated the latest book by Soke. What do you think the biggest thing I had to do for them is?

It is to help them understand what Soke says/writes in Japanese. That was my role. I had to analyse every sentence to show them the exact structure of it, and it took me for ever. (partly because the stuff was written Japanese and had more complexed structures, tho.)

This happens in worse mannars at Soke's classes because we don't have enough time to correct all the errors we're aware of (and we don't even notice some, I'm afraid).

So, I think you should have talked to me, too.

Quote:

Jozza wrote:
Given that both Danny and George are so active on this forum, would it make sense if together you confirmed what you would post before posting it? And if you are not able to agree (due to different interpretations on the "meaning within the words") maybe don't post it at all at the risk of spreading misinformation?


I understand what you mean.
I think I would have jumped in to correct the mistranslations if I had known Danny was planning to post these topics here after the class.

Posted on: 2005/4/16 11:02
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Re: 4-15-2005 Class Comments
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A bit more on Kanjin Kaname.

The Ninjutsu Hiketsubun says "故に武道の達人にして忍術を修業すれば肝心かなめの秘訣を得べし。肝心かなめとは神心神眼と知るべし。" in it.

(I hope somebody will translate it into English. )

Posted on: 2005/4/16 15:56
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Re: 4-15-2005 Class Comments
村長 :: Sonchou
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Quote:

"故に武道の達人にして忍術を修業すれば肝心かなめの秘訣を得べし。肝心かなめとは神心神眼と知るべし。"



Therefore if one is to become a master of budo and pursue ninjutsu, he must gain the mysteries of the essential point. The essential point is that he should know the heart and eyes of the divine.


Shawn

Posted on: 2005/4/16 21:01
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Re: 4-15-2005 Class Comments
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My fluency isn't as good as Shawn's, so I consulted a dictionary to get the essential meaning of 神心神眼 - my source indicates god's heart and god's eye.

I guess this goes without saying, but Soke's terribly clever at purposefully punning.

I was fortunate to study Japanese poetry and classics in Canada with two bilingual teachers from Ritsumeikan Univeristy who revealed the multiplicity of meanings in Japanese literature, a deep meaning that's entirely lost in translation. The English translations of poetry require heavy footnoting to aid comprehension.

It's important for English speakers to bear in mind that puns in English may be used for humourous purposes, but in other languages, including Japanese, there is real intent to wordplay.

Translators should be commened, imho. My grandma insists that Shakespeare in the original German is superior to the English

Posted on: 2005/4/17 19:23
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Re: 4-15-2005 Class Comments
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Quote:

kouryuu wrote:
Quote:

"故に武道の達人にして忍術を修業すれば肝心かなめの秘訣を得べし。肝心かなめとは神心神眼と知るべし。"



Therefore if one is to become a master of budo and pursue ninjutsu, he must gain the mysteries of the essential point. The essential point is that he should know the heart and eyes of the divine.


Shawn


just for reference, from the "History & Tradition book"

If an expert in the fighting arts sincerely pursues the essence of ninjutsu, devoid of the influence of the ego's desires, the student will proggressively come to realize the ultimate secret for becoming invincible -the attainment of the 'mind and eyes of god.'

And Danny, thanks for sharing what's happening in honbu with us! Also Shawn, George, Ed and many more who help fill in the blanks. It is important and works in ways that most people don't understand. So don't let these people put you down. I really appriceate it anyway

Oh, and I'm quite sure that Shakespears original work was in English not German.

Posted on: 2005/4/17 20:32
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Re: 4-15-2005 Class Comments
村長 :: Sonchou
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Thanks Mats,

There are things in what you quoted from 'H & T' which were not in the text that Joji gave above, but obviously the two come from a related or identical source.

The reason I chose 'divine' instead of 'god' in my translation was to avoid stereotype and cultural/religous bias that many westerners associate with 'god.' I feel the term 'divine' has a much less sectarian connotation and is more faithful to the intent of the Japanese text.

Shawn

Posted on: 2005/4/17 20:48
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Re: 4-15-2005 Class Comments
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Does someone know who was the translator of "H&T"? I seem to recall it was more a project of SKH than of Hatsumi-sôke (like SKH's version/interpretation of the Togakure-ryû Ninpô Taijutsu)?

-------------
Ari Julku
Shidôshi
Bujinkan Yamazu Dôjô

Posted on: 2005/4/18 0:05
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