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Re: Bujinkan Kenjutsu
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Quote:

Ryujin wrote:
With all due respect to Shawn and his efforts in maintaining this message board, this entire thread is a good example of why Soke has asked not to post certain things on the internet. I would seriously suggest that members please re-read the following that Joji has kindly posted on his website –

"Recently, all sort of information has found its way across the Internet, making for give-&-take exchanges in regards to information and opinions, which is important. However, the truth is that the Internet poses many dangers. That is why I'd like to ask you to always think "If I write this in this manner, will it produce a problem or not?"


Thank you for your mentioning the message.

Quote:

Then it would be a very good idea not to comment on them at all, since, as you stated, you don't know enough to judge them.


I once suggested that everybody clarify their own careers, sources of information etc. when they state something strong (see below). The internet is a dangerous space where anybody can behave like an authority. Please think about it again.

Quote:

George_Ohashi wrote:
And how to behave on the Internet, right?
(Soke mentions this very often when we talk in person.)

We should ask ourselves before posting.
"What are you going to say now?"
"(If it's clear) are you really sure about them?"
"(If you think so) why are you sure?"
"(If your ideas are correct) is it appropriate to say all the 'correct' things on the Internet where anybody can read your posts?"
etc. etc.

I like some of you to read my previous post again that seems to have been completely ignored when I posted it...


Quote:

George_Ohashi wrote:
People often say "BBT is (not) xxx", "Soke thinks xxx" etc. with confidence. It's Ok, but, when they say different things, which should we choose? I think we need more information for our own judgment.

If what you insist on is just a simple fact, then putting an evidence or the source of the information will help us.

But if you can't do it (when stating abstract ideas etc.), we should know more about the poster, shouldn't we?

So, if you want to state something which is not just a fact, then I like you to tell us your career or things like that. For example, how long you have been studying this Budo, what kind of things you have experienced (including both trainging and real fights), or what rank you have in what, etc. (You don't have to say all because necessity depends on the theme.)

I have seen a lot of juniors talk here and there as if they knew all about the theme. I like to avoid such things.


My 15yen.


(Posted on: 2004/10/4 17:50 and 2004/10/9 8:34 on this thread.)

Posted on: 2005/5/24 13:58
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Re: Bujinkan Kenjutsu
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I was once told that Kukishin ryu and Yagyu Shinkage ryu developed in the same region in old Japan, and that there was quite a bit of "cross-training" that occurred, resulting in very similar techniques. I have no way to verify this statement, however. My instructor told me this once a long time ago. I can't ask him where he got his information from.

If it is true, then I think training in Yagyu Shinkage ryu would benefit Bujinkan students. Having said, finding Yagyu Shinkage ryu in the United States can be difficult, about as difficult as finding someone who has trained extensively in Kukishin ryu. For example, the closest YSR to me (that I have found so far) is in Tampa, FL. The closest Bujinkan students who have extensively trained in Kukishin ryu that I am aware of are in Dallas (Molitor-sensei) and Indiana.

If anyone can clarify whether there was historical relationship between Kukishin ryu and Yagyu Shinkage ryu I would appreciate it.

Shane Layton

Posted on: 2005/5/24 14:22
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The main objective of our training is find and eliminate our own suki
- Darren Tanner, my friend and teacher. Rest in peace, brother.
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Posted on: 2005/5/24 15:07
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Re: Bujinkan Kenjutsu
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I think the issue is that we are 'taijutsu-men' and not specifically swordsmen.

This type of issue has been discussed on kutaki b4... But if you wish to compliment your training with something that you feel is important to you than you should find a good means of doing so. If I wish to learn wilderness survival skills I might wish to ask someone other than my BJK instructor, etc. The same is true for firearms, etc.

If you focus your training on a sword school instead of a system containing 9 schools I would assume you would learn more kenjutsu. Its all in if/how you choose to specialize your training.

I believe that the BJK contains all I will ever need. But I still meet with friends from other systems to see what interesting things their schools have to offer. It's important to be at a high enough skill level b4 trying other things... and those that are training in archery, kenjutsu, etc are likely at a level where they feel they are capable of making those judgement calls. They will more than likely bring something back to their BJK training afterwards.


I really feel that its important to not state that we don't have blank in the BJK, but rather that it might not be as specialised as other schools. I have heard of different karate instructors teaching sword work, and even one kungfu instructor teaching katana sword work... I didn't realise that the katana was a traditional karate weapon, lets not make ourselves sound like those persons (our lineages have credentials).

Posted on: 2005/5/24 18:09
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Jon
"Take this with a grain of salt, hell salt to taste"
“He who seeks knowledge begins with humbleness”, Buju Banton
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Re: Bujinkan Kenjutsu
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Quote:

USMC_0351 wrote:

If it is true, then I think training in Yagyu Shinkage ryu would benefit Bujinkan students. Having said, finding Yagyu Shinkage ryu in the United States can be difficult, about as difficult as finding someone who has trained extensively in Kukishin ryu. For example, the closest YSR to me (that I have found so far) is in Tampa, FL. The closest Bujinkan students who have extensively trained in Kukishin ryu that I am aware of are in Dallas (Molitor-sensei) and Indiana.

If anyone can clarify whether there was historical relationship between Kukishin ryu and Yagyu Shinkage ryu I would appreciate it.

Shane Layton


I could be wrong but I thought the connection was further back through Kage Ryu. What I have read is that both Kukishin Ryu and Yagyu Shinkage Ryu were influenced by Kage Ryu in the far distant past.

Do you know who the YSR teacher is in Tampa? I was not aware of one being there, does not mean there is not.

Posted on: 2005/5/24 19:58
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Re: Bujinkan Kenjutsu
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Chris,

His name is David Walter. Here is his website.

If they were both influence by the same root style then that may well be what Darren was talking about. I think that could explain the similarities in waza. One waza that really seems similar to me is Kasumi (in the Kukishin ryu). It closely resembles a YSR waza translated as "the wheel" (I apologize, I do not the proper term).

Shane Layton

Posted on: 2005/5/24 20:25
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Shane Layton

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The main objective of our training is find and eliminate our own suki
- Darren Tanner, my friend and teacher. Rest in peace, brother.
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Re: Bujinkan Kenjutsu
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Let me explain about relation of Kenjutsu schools.

Aisu Ikousai, the founder of Kage-ryu, was born in Ise where is close to Kumano. Kumano relate to Kukishin-ryu. He visited Kashima and taught his method.

Tsukahara Bokuden, the founder of Shintou-ryu, and Kamiizumi Nobutsuna, the founder of Shinkage-ryu, trained in Kashima.

Yagyu Sekishusai, the founder or Yagyushinkage-ryu, was student of Kaimiizumi.

These are well known history and there exist same principles in these schools.

Posted on: 2005/5/25 8:28
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Re: Bujinkan Kenjutsu
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Quote:
I had a feeling that this topic might ruffle some feathers, but nobody was insulted,
?

Quote:
Disagreement is not failure.

Nobody ever said that it was.

Quote:
I knew that Luke was teaching Kukishin ryu sword, I knew he might not be happy with my post.

So even though you thought you might insult him, you did it anyway? Now I'm confused...

Quote:
Luke knows I don't want to insult him,

You and Luke must have a very close relationship.

Quote:
What I said was based upon personal communication with students and teachers of the Bujinkan and Yagyu Shinkage ryu.


I think some members on the board here may be a little unclear when you write "personal communication". In your last post, you said you "trained under a Bujinkan Shihan who is also a student of Yagyu Shinkage ryu." Who is this person? Were you actually training (as you advised everyone else to do) or just having a friendly conversation?

Thank you.
Richard Maloof

Posted on: 2005/5/25 12:48
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Re: Bujinkan Kenjutsu
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Rich,

Not taking sides, but curious if you are needling Danny due to the fact that you are a student of Someya Sensei, who is well known for his kenjutsu. If that puts you in a better position of knowledge in this discussion, why not just come out and say so...

You probably have some valuable information on kenjutsu through studying with Someya Sensei. Why not come out and share some of that with us and be productive instead of criticizing from the sidelines?

Shawn

Posted on: 2005/5/25 13:23
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Posted on: 2005/5/25 21:32
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