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Re: Godan Test
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If you have been training seriously till you get your 4th dan, your taijutsu may be good enough. So, the most important thing you should hold to be ready for your 5th dan test is, IMHO, some mental/emotional stability.

Just my 2yen.

Posted on: 2005/7/13 18:20
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Re: Godan Test
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Sensei once told me that for a short time after he had passed the test from Takamatsu Sensei, he believed that he had accomplished something. He had passed, and done a good job. He said that he later realized that he had done nothing - it was Takamatsu Sensei who had moved him out of the way.

I think this goes with the concept of Zero. If you are Zero and someone attacks you, you just let them move you out of the way. "Let" here is of course not an active, participatory verb. Its more like you are moved out of the way by them.

My opinion is that Sensei first mastered moving the candidate out of the way when he was administering the test, and is now experimenting with moving the candidate out of the way when someone *else* is administering the test - since all tests still must be done with Sensei physically present.

Has anyone here ever watched *Sensei* when someone else is administering the test, instead of watching the candidate and the person standing behind him? Its interesting.

Shawn

Posted on: 2005/7/13 18:24
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Re: Godan Test
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Quote:

kukan_bujin wrote:

It is very easy:

If Hatsumi-sensei deceides that you pass the Godan test, you pass it.

If Hatsumi-sensei deceides that you're not going to pass it, you're not going to pass it.

Watch the videos again and you'll notice that (at least nowadays) he stops the cut and recuts. If he does not do this people get hit. This means no one would escape his cut without his help.


Agreed.

Ive heard it explained as follows:

Soke literally "pushes you" out of the way with his shear intent. If the intent was swithched off, youre gonna get nailed !!!!!!!!!!.

Have a look at the DKMS 2002 DVD if you want to see this in action. Day 1, "POW", he nails just about everyone, day 2 though, different story. You can clearly see that Soke uses more intent on Day 2, as opposed to Day 1.

There are some who post here regularly who were present and even sat their Godans then (i wont name names). Ask them what they felt.

Posted on: 2005/7/13 18:26
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Re: Godan Test
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Quote:

kouryuu wrote:

My opinion is that Sensei first mastered moving the candidate out of the way when he was administering the test, and is now experimenting with moving the candidate out of the way when someone *else* is administering the test - since all tests still must be done with Sensei physically present.

Has anyone here ever watched *Sensei* when someone else is administering the test, instead of watching the candidate and the person standing behind him? Its interesting.

Shawn



I can understand your point based on my experience.

I took the test this past April, Arnaud Cousergue Administered the test.

I was sand-bagged into taking the test, I never in my life felt fear like I felt that evening, I was so full of fear and anxiety.

Sensei called me up and handed the shinai to Arnaud and motion me to sat in sizen and I was stuck in mind, thought as well as body, til I closed my eyes and felt a sudden wind fo calm, peace, zero and open my eyes to what seemed like a thunder of claps and congradulations, etc.

At the time, there was nothing to share with those whom inquired, but sheer confusion as to what had happen to me.

A couple of weeks later, I attempted to try and explain my experience, as I can remember that evening, during and afterwards, I felt sensei or something of an essence embrace me, sort of like an initiation of a sorts, I knew that evening, Sensei had alot to do with me evading that sword more so then I thought.. I believe that with all my heart.

Its another level of intent for Sensei in his continuous development, I presume.


Posted on: 2005/7/14 1:44
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Re: Godan Test
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Food for thought!

Last night as I was driving home from work, I had this weird (is what I'll call it for the sake of this story) feeling in my stomach.

Because I was exhausted from a long day of work, I thought nothing serious of it. Although it was a persistent feeling of something was going to happen. Again, I gave it no serious thought.

I merged into the left lane to turn left, as I was slowing down, I observed this car going fast, for which I had enough time to turn anyhow, as soon as I made the turn, I heard this SMACK CRASH and looked back as I turned, it seemed as I escaped by a second or two.
Two mini vans went head on!

I stopped pulled over and went to see if I could be of help.

Literally in a matter of mins, that feeling was no longer there...


When I arrived home, I notice when I was describing the incident to my wife, I mentioned that scary feeling I had in my stomach when I was about to take my godan test...

Anyone ever had any similiar experiences ?

Posted on: 2005/9/3 6:20
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Re: Godan Test
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I think it is hard for people who have sat the test to really understand it. There are levels of learning about the test.
1. hearing about it and talking about it (as I see some sub-godan on the topic)
2. passing/failing it - i.e. experienceing it
3. wondering about it for years while you watch other attempt it and give it.
4. giving it yourself.
5. giving it over 1000 times like Soke has.

At each level more is learnt - a lot more from what I have learnt from the first four.

For those that discount the test, I too tried to be nice to people and help/let them pass for a short while. Fortunately nobody passed in that time so my conscience is clear. After that I took it upon myself to just test them with nothing else in my mind, Joji would laught when people passed because I would tell him I failed and the student passed - I failed to kill them.

Whatever lights your fire about theories of how the test works is fine. I think Ed Martins explanation is the best so far. For me I will keep trying to kill all those who end up in front of my feet.

Posted on: 2005/9/3 11:57
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Re: Godan Test
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For the record.

The experience the other night with the car accident in my previous post, was not to give anyone the impression that it was about the godan experience, If I did, I want to apologize for that.. I should had started another thread about metaphysics. I believe when an experience occurs beyond the comprehension of the conscious mind, and once the individual attempts to interpret such an experience the meaning of the exp becomes distorted.

As for the godan test, I don't know what moved me, I do know it was beyond my physical senses.

Last night in class I was asked what it felt like... My response to them after a long pause and failing to come up with a satisfactory answer as if I knew, was simply this:

I dont know what moved me, I do know it was beyond what I can hear, feel, see, etc.

Since returning home from Japan, I do not claim to know what it is.. I believe everyone has there own unique experience.

I believe there is aspects of self that goes beyond the conscious mind/subconscious as well. Although the subconscious can serve as a portal of a sort for the individual to receive data from the innerself/higer self, etc.
I do want to say as for me, there is no debate or claim to know everything about the human/spiritual experince.

Ed its good to know your around, when are you coming back to NY?

It would be good to have a seminar with you here in the NYC area in the near future.

Posted on: 2005/9/3 21:37
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Re: Godan Test
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Anthony; About two years ago I was in my pickup truck, in the rain, cleaning swimming pools. I finished the first pool in a small neighborhood and was driving to the next pool when I stopped at the intersection stop sign. I started across, then all of a sudden I had 'that' feeling. So I slamed on the brakes and right then about an inch from the front of my truck a car doing over 100 mph. shot by followed by a cop car.
Now to go back two weeks I knew my tires were worn a little but still ok. For some reason I felt I really needed to put new tires on the truck and when at the tire store I paid extra to have them siped; which is to have extra cuts for traction put in them.
Back to the intersection now, a second cop car stopped to block that street and had saw what was all most a very bad acccident. He told me the speed of the robbery getaway driver and thought I was dead; if hit.
If I had not had 'that' feeling and had not been compelled to buy new tires....for that rainy day.
Barry

Posted on: 2005/9/4 1:08
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Re: Godan Test
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Probably a lot of people here have had similar experiences, I get told about them all the time. What they should do and what the go-dan test does do is to shift your "reality anchors". We find that the things we thought impossible are not impossible. An experience of the sort given by Barry should cause us to really look at our perceptions and at the things we think are not possible. It should cause us to expand our definition of what IS possible.
Ed Martin aka Papa-san

Posted on: 2005/9/4 3:05
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Re: Godan Test
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In response to what I have read here I would like to submit something that is food for thought.
Although I have never taken the Godan test myself, from what I know of the Godan test and everything I have read here and elsewhere I submit:
The Godan test is something that should be taken along with certain essential Buddist teachings. For example, buddist teachings simply state that we should live to experience the moment then move on. We cannot change the past, the future, or the present, all we can do is experience it, enjoy it (or not) and move on. Soke said once(or several times) that we should be almost childlike in many ways in our training. In observing my own children that is the wonder of them. They can look at something, if they don't understand it they have the innocent ability to let it go and move on to the next thing that presents itself to them.
that is not to say that we shouldn;t take some time and try to collect all of our knowledge and try to understand but rather don't dwell on it if the answer doesn't come right away.
In trying to analyze something so spiritual as the Godan test we clutter our minds with something that isn't there anymore. In so doing that we miss the next moment that may contain that wisdom of enlightenment. In this instacne of the Godan test we can't change it past, present, or future but mostly because we are not the ones in control- Soke is.
He is the enlightened one.
Life's experiences, the one's we don't understand are kind of like the "a ha" light bulb that comes on when we finally understand something for the first time. That understanding may be something we wondered about long ago, but put it away for a later time. Then one day something triggers the answer that was within us all the time- a word, a motion, the way something is said. I have those experiences all the time during class training and in other instances during zazen.
My point is that if you don't understand the Godan test or what happened then perhaps you are trying too hard to understand it. Let it go (go to zero). Later on it will come back to you as you are ready for it's answer and one day you might have a full understanding of what happened or even a full recollection of the event.

We as humans are always so arrogant to believe that we are so smart to be able to understand all things immediately with no further exaplanation. Fact is that this has nothing to do with "smarts" it is pure and simple letting go of the moment and moving on. You felt fear, your stomach ached, you notice the feeling, you moved out of the way, then it was over. This is a fine example of uncluttering the mind for an instant.
I may never in my lifetime reach the Godan test because I may never reach that full feeling of "zero" due to other circumstances in my life. I have accepted this(yet another part of buddist teachings-acceptance) and I am happy with that acceptance. But I do believe I have an understanding of what is needed to get there as a result of that understanding, conversely, I may be able to attain that level one day no matter what my age. My only hope is that I can teach this to my children in that is has taken me so long to get here. Perhaps I can show them the path that is shorter- not a shortcut but a shorter more direct path.

I don't bring this up for any other reason than to test my own understanding of the Buddist philosophy. I recently began my studies of the Buddist philosophy and they have exposed some answers that I have sought for many years. I just happened to see the correalation here to one speck of the philosophy.
Thanks for letting me speak.

Ed Green

Posted on: 2005/9/20 0:04
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