Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
Socialize
 

Recent Topics
Topic Replies Last Post
Travel Safety Tips 0 1/16 1:36
elina30
Using couriers 8 2018/8/22 18:27
Bowlby_18
Wedding gift... can someone help me to translate it? 6 2018/6/30 20:50
Barga18
Aomori-Ken 0 2018/6/19 10:27
hanzo-tou
Certificates 0 2018/5/8 4:34
schistkicker

Browsing this Thread:   1 Anonymous Users



« 1 2 3 (4)


Re: Diet.
Occasional Visitor
Joined:
2005/1/8 2:57
From New York
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 8
Offline
It seems like you're more interested in argument then balanced discussion, but let's see if we can keep this on topic.

Quote:

Actually - a bone-setter would be considered a bone-setter abroad. This doesn't necessarily confer "Dietician" as a normal extension of expertise.


Agreed, however your previous statement was that Dr. Hatsumi was not a health expert, a statement in error to the facts. You did not state that he was not a dietician nor to the best of my knowledge has anyone claimed that he was.

Quote:
If what Hatsumi says agrees with what knowledgeable experts in the fields of nutrition and diets say - then why attach yourself to him instead of the experts? I am sure he would report himself as healthy - and lives a healthy lifestyle. With that said - I don't consider him an expert in the field (and the densho were written by people who are clearly not experts in the field of modern nutrition.


Who claimed, stated or implied attachment to anyone? I certainly didn't in a few paragraphs I wrote.

I can understand being put off by people who take a hagiographic stance towards Dr. Hatsumi. However making the assumption that someone who references his works in a discussion related to his works and practices and how those corrolate to the current state of a given field is engaging in that behavior seems shortsighted if not down right foolish.

As for the Densho issue, the Lore of a given people or culture often contains information which is later corroborated by methodological research. Much of the dietary recommendations in this particular case are a good example of this. Whether this is simply a nice coincidence, a result of people living spartan lifestyles discovering a way to maximize what they had or a sign of actual wisdom on the topic is open to interpretation. I haven't made a claim one way or another.

Quote:
You even gave an example of a modern institution - but still refer to "printed" materials by Hatsumi - as if the University of Arizona is agreeing with Sensei instead of it being the other way around.


Usually when making a digression in a discussion you start with what is being discussed and more to the digression rather then simply blurt out decontextualized statements.

You made certain claims about the irrelevancy of Dr. Hatsumi's recommendations regarding dietary practices. Starting by outlining what his recommendations are, where the can be found and how they corrolate to present understandings by experts in the field was to address your statements. I stuck to printed materials (no quotes necessary) because they are easily accessable to anyone interested in pursuing the topic themselves.

Quote:
Why isn't this thread about "good general nutrition" instead of "the ninja southbeach diet"? Again - why the attachment to Sensei for this?


As far as the thread goes, I didn't start it and thus have no responsability for its contents other then my own contributions.

Posted on: 2005/9/30 23:54
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Diet.
Deleted_
Hatsumi Sensei is a health expert?

Posted on: 2005/10/1 5:21
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Diet.
Villager
Joined:
2005/2/10 1:45
From Greenville, MI
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 75
Offline
There are no health experts....None of the doctors can ever agree what is healthy and what is not. Every year or two there seems to be a new way to eat healthy...In America it doesn't seem to change the fact that most of us are fat! The "experts" can't agree, so why should we? Ever notice that these health experts are usually just as fat as the rest of us?
In August, I started a new/old diet based on the way Roman legions ate on campaign ( or so states the author) Its called the "warrior diet" by Ori Hofmekler.
Basic gist: During the day under eating phase- only raw vege's and fruit and fresh aka "live" juice both vege and fruit; Purpose is for detox, build up on digestive enzymes and give digetive sys a break. Prepares metabolism for evening meal.
Evening "overeating" phase- One large meal early evening. Start with leafy vege, then cooked vege's/soups/protein (meats, beans,etc..) than carbs last. You eat until satisfied....As much as you want, which will probably be more than usual. You can even have choclate for desert...It acts as a reward phase/keeps metabolism burning higher.
Result: Since the begining of Aug I have dropped from 215lbs down to 187lbs, I have more energy, think clearer, and actually found out I have muscle tone. I haven't changed my slacker exercise habits, yet. With a better exercise program I am sure my results will be better. You can do this diet indefinately and when ever you feel like splurging (holidays, eating out w/friends, etc...) it doesn't affect your diet. You just continue the next day. Is it for everybody? Probably not, works great for me and other people that have tried it...It goes counter to the current popular notions of healthy eating and having 6 meals a day....But it does work. Actually if I counted each juice/ piece of fruit etc.. as a meal than It would work out to 5-6 meals a day.
The hardest part is the first week of under eating, after that it is pretty intuitive....You will crave you you lack for your dinner meal. For people who are doing bodybuilding you can add a small amount of protein during the day for pre/post workout.
For more info, check out the book on amazon...This is just a small summary and how it works for me....You may get different results, and no I am not a doctor. I have an example of a quack doctor and rotten advice. My sister has these neverending cycles of surgery at the suggestion of her doctor, Even tho another doctor from Calif. has told her they were not needed. Well the newest thing is her doctor now tells her that her bowels might be too long and that she needs to have another surgery....How can your bowels be too long! Its probably out of balance from all the other things that doctor removed..
Moral of the story? Not all experts are.


Posted on: 2005/10/3 4:57
_________________
David Fletcher
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Diet.
Deleted_
If people not agreeing makes them non-experts, then there is no such thing as an expert. You have expert witnesses at every major trial... why, because they are there to give more than one opinion or side. Every geo-technical evaluation has at least 2 experts (or should) before building a logging road, etc etc. They almost never agree.

It makes sense that people who spend there whole lives researching and living something are going to find different answers. But there are still general understandings found within all major medical systems in the world.

Expert or not, under-eatting phases then followed by over-eatting is a recipe for disaster. Ask your family doctor or a registered dietition. Think heart disease and diabetes. You dont need to be overweight to have either.

Ive been at Kutaki for a decent amount of time now. I tend to only post when i have something constuctive to add. Especially when someone tells another member of kutaki to do something i consider silly. But you know what, its not my responsibilty if someone decides to eat raw meat, join a fad diet or otherwise ignore the general concensus of medicine because "they know more". They have eatten xo diet and feel great.

I guess what I am getting at is that I am tired of reading the crap advice (on budo and health) people give out when they really dont know at all. "Ive read it in a book, or my friend told me", or some other BS. Just like E-Budo. When someone like George or others who really do have the experience give advice next time, try listening instead of recoiling into defensive mode. Stop and think for a moment that maybe you are wrong and at least explore the possibilty.

This is my last post. Thank you Shawn if you manage to see this while sifting through all these "posts". You have done a heck of a job with so many people.

Posted on: 2005/10/3 13:47
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Diet.
村長 :: Sonchou
Joined:
2003/1/24 17:34
From Chiba, Japan
Group:
村長 :: Admin
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 1546
Offline
Quote:

AccountDeleted wrote:

Thank you Shawn if you manage to see this while sifting through all these "posts". You have done a heck of a job with so many people.


I hadn't really been following this thread. What caught my attention about it was seeing that someone had deleted their account. Curious, I looked and found the above post. Now that the account has been deleted, I don't know who wrote it...

Glad you enjoyed Kutaki in the time that you were here. Life goes through phases and cycles, some of which involve being on Internet forums and some which don't. When its time for a change, its time for a change. (For example, I've been very very infrequent on the IRC channel lately - I used to be on all the time since starting it in 1996.) There are cycles of contraction and expansion, which are natural and necessary. Its good when you can sense when it is time for you to change, and then "change as change is necessary."

Thanks for the kind words, and best regards.

Posted on: 2005/10/3 14:23
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Diet.
Deleted_
Quote:
Diet alone isn’t enough to totally prevent illness. I recommend including lots of sweating, walking, stretching, and training in your daily routine. Eat lots of natural and healthy foods. Any safe raw foods are preferable. We all know what is healthy and what is unhealthy so I won’t go into that. I also recommend getting into a steady sleep routine and sleeping east to west. It is good to drink some beer before bed. It is also a good idea that when you bathe/shower to avoid hot water, and avoid breathing through your mouth.



I hate to get into details, but the above is the advice I gave to someone to help their immune system. Would some expert on nutrition please tell us what is unsafe about this advice? I don’t understand why these people are so upset that I recommend this to someone.

As for eating raw meat, I stated in a post several months ago that I choose to eat only raw meat. I did not “suggest” that anyone do this. In fact I said it was a BAD idea to do so. Again, please read the rest of the post.

Also, could someone let me know what is wrong with the diet that David Fletcher is trying? It seemed like a very healthy diet to me, and it obviously has worked for him.

Congratulations David!

So basically, would an expert someone inform poor stupid me as to what it is that is so unhealthy and offensive about this advice.

Thanks in advance,


Also:
Quote:
Mach5 wrote:
When someone like George or others who really do have the experience give advice next time, try listening instead of recoiling into defensive mode. Stop and think for a moment that maybe you are wrong and at least explore the possibilty.


Does Soke make this list of experienced people as well? If so, this is good advice on advice. Since these are his recommendations on diet

Posted on: 2005/10/3 23:28
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Diet.
Villager
Joined:
2003/2/3 9:05
From Tokyo, Japan
Group:
村民 :: Villager
議長 :: Mod
Posts: 90
Offline
Something to keep in mind; there is no ONE RIGHT WAY! If you study the literature on diets from "healthy" cultures around the world you will find tremendous variance. Some long-lived groups consume large amounts of their nutrients from raw meat and fatty foods, some have high carbohydrate percentages, and some eat so little food that most of us would go crazy trying to duplicate their diets. Shoot, I had 2 great-grandmothers that lived to be 95 and they drank, smoked, and ate fat and candy everyday!
If you truly want to know what is best FOR YOU, you are going to have to put in the time to do the research and find out what works for yourself. The same is true of what type of exercise program will work best for an individual.
Remember that we are all unique and every diet will work for some people.

Posted on: 2005/10/4 3:20
_________________
Rob Renner

The question you should ask is not
"What will his next attack be and how should I respond to it?",
but "What could I have done beforehand to pre-determine his next move!"
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Diet.
Deleted_
Quote:
Would some expert on nutrition please tell us what is unsafe about this advice


Anyone? I really would like to know. So I do not upset anyone so terribly a second time. Are there any health experts out there?

Quote:
Also, could someone let me know what is wrong with the diet that David Fletcher is trying? It seemed like a very healthy diet to me, and it obviously has worked for him.


I am sure David would also like to know what is unhealthy about his own diet for obvious reasons, if it can cause heart disease or diabeties, as has been suggested.

Please advise,

Thanks!

Posted on: 2005/10/11 4:59
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer



« 1 2 3 (4)




[Advanced Search]


Today's Sponsor