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Re: Kukishinden Tenshin Hyoho "Denshukai" in Ayabe city, Japan
村長 :: Sonchou
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This is my responsibility for allowing a non-Bujinkan seminar to be advertised here without knowing much background information on the organization. I just saw that it was Kukishin-related and thought that as such it would be of interest to Bujinkan practitioners, so I allowed it to be posted.

In the future, only Bujinkan seminars will be promoted on Kutaki.

Thanks,

Shawn

Posted on: 2005/9/26 14:46
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Re: Kukishinden Tenshin Hyoho "Denshukai" in Ayabe city, Japan
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Steve wrote:
Quote:
No, the facts are correct, you can even see Tanemura's picture on the site.


For the record:

I have never attacked Mr. Hatsumi's claims to Happo Hiken. Period. Anyone thinking otherwise can find me a quote or better yet contact Mr. Don Roley of Tokyo, Japan (as an afterthought- He probably won't like being bothered by this.)

We are not related to the Gembukan and furthermore Kukishinden Tenshin Hyoho does not promote Mr. Tanemura. The primary reason his name on the Shinjin website is because of his connection to Kimura Masaharu. That's it- the rest is conjecture! Just because we don't have the same problems with other groups as you *may* have does not mean we are promoting those other groups.

Here is some more information, coming from the FAQ on the Kukishinden Tenshin Hyoho Website, take a gander:
Quote:

Q:
On the Soke of Kukishin Ryu
A:
Apart from our "Kukishinden Tenshinhyoho," there are other lineages of Kukishin Ryu, such as "Kukishinden Happo Hikenjutsu," "Tenshinhyoho Kukishin Ryu" and "Soden Kukishin Ryu," all of which regard Yakushimaru Ryushin as the founder of the school. There is also Kukishin Ryu Bojutsu technique instructed in Takagi Ryu. With hundreds of years having passed after the establishment of the school, it is not too much to say that each individual school of Kukishin Ryu has become independent, and there is no reason that they, who are not the direct descent of the Kukis, should not claim the Soke-ship any longer. We, however, respect the will of teachers including Iwami Nangaku, who established "Kodosenyokai Shobukyoku"; there will be no changes in our stance that Kuki Munetaka, direct descendant of the founder of the school, incumbent head of the Kuki family, should be the "one and only Soke." (retrieved 09-27-05 from: http://www.shinjin.co.jp/kuki/hyoho/faq_e.htm ; fifth question.)


If you don't believe me, then come and see me (us) here at the Denshukai. You're still welcome to come.

Posted on: 2005/9/27 14:31
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-Russ Ebert 江波戸ラス
www.kukishinden.org
www.budoguten.futagotrader.com
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Re: Kukishinden Tenshin Hyoho "Denshukai" in Ayabe city, Japan
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I think that in this thread we have a great example of how folks should and should not conduct themselves. DuncanM's considerations were nicely put, and a valid question. On the other hand, Magokoro comes out, accuses people of things, acts in a very snide and ugly way and accomplishes nil. After Mekugi clarifies things, Mago is nowhere to be seen.

Perhaps there is someone who should spend less time accusing others of things and look at his own motivations and ego. Perhaps if more people thought about the effects of their actions, it would not be necessary to post notices about how people should conduct themselves when in Japan.

On this board you are liable to be judged by people of different cultural backgrounds, not just Slappy from around the corner.

G. Vreeman

Posted on: 2005/9/28 2:40
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Re: Kukishinden Tenshin Hyoho "Denshukai" in Ayabe city, Japan
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Mr. Vreeman,
I could not agree more.

For the public record, I have found Mr. Ebert to be very friendly and helpful in my personal communications with him and I would hate to lose the free exchange of ideas on any fascinating subject because of a misunderstanding.


Posted on: 2005/9/28 4:19
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Re: Kukishinden Tenshin Hyoho "Denshukai" in Ayabe city, Japan
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Quote:
Perhaps if more people thought about the effects of their actions, it would not be necessary to post notices about how people should conduct themselves when in Japan.

On this board you are liable to be judged by people of different cultural backgrounds, not just Slappy from around the corner.


There is a Japanese proverb that goes "Tabi no haji wa kakisute." Literally this means "Travel's shame is thrown away (disposable)." Interpreted, it has several meanings, but here it means that it's easy to be rude, crude or naughty when you are anonymous; traveling provides that anonymity. In big cities this is especially true, where acting badly will generally not come back to haunt you. For the foreign traveler this has an inverse meaning, one that backlashes from the popular elucidation of the phrase.

It sets parameters as the way Japanese natives may act traveling. Therefore expatriates and visitors coming from across the globe have now entered the definition of how they will act and with grim expectations. An international visitor must therefore go to the extent of acting even MORE polite, regardless of what other people are doing around them.

For example, the infamous street urinating- the drunken salary-men who pee in the streets (or on the side of buildings or into flowerpots) after a drinking party. This is not "normal" behavior when the Salary-man is at home (generally speaking), but it happens in places when no one "seems to care." To this extent, a Japanese national may see this regularly and turn a blind eye to it; in fact defining their own proverb. Yet, when the Japanese national sees a "foreigner" relieve themselves in the street, they will take notice. One's anonymity is dissolved an as you stand out from the faceless crowd. You now become a foreigner who is acting rude because you can. Your status of being a visitor whether you make Japan your home or not, is now pushed aside for your actions coupled with who you are.

Truly,

Posted on: 2005/9/28 15:36
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-Russ Ebert 江波戸ラス
www.kukishinden.org
www.budoguten.futagotrader.com
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Re: Kukishinden Tenshin Hyoho "Denshukai" in Ayabe city, Japan
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Quote:

Redneck_Shinobi wrote:
I think that in this thread we have a great example of how folks should and should not conduct themselves.On the other hand, Magokoro comes out, accuses people of things, acts in a very snide and ugly way and accomplishes nil. After Mekugi clarifies things, Mago is nowhere to be seen.

Perhaps there is someone who should spend less time accusing others of things and look at his own motivations and ego. Perhaps if more people thought about the effects of their actions, it would not be necessary to post notices about how people should conduct themselves when in Japan.
G. Vreeman


No, I am waiting to see if Russ is finished re-editing his original reply which he has done three times already. "Nowhere to be seen?" If you were around Mr. Vreeman, you would have noticed the changes.

Yes, Duncan asked a "nice" question, but why is it our responsibility to ask Hatsumi Sensei if it is okay to attend the seminar?**

Russ has lived in Japan long enough to know the burden was on him and his teacher's to contact Hatsumi Sensei if it is okay to publically post on a Bujinkan website advertising this seminar inviting everyone to train in their ryu-ha.

Of course, they never intended to do this because of everything Russ is telling you to ignore.

What he did was a bad breach of protocol in Japanese budo society. Hatsumi Sensei would not like what is happening here or that his students have been sneaking off to attend past seminars hosted by the Tenshin Hyoho folks. "Perhaps if more people thought about the effects of their actions, it would not be necessary to post notices about how people should conduct themselves when in Japan." Exactly.

I shouldn't be surprised you didn't like my post Vreeman since you were the first one to jump on the bandwagon announcing you want to attend the seminar.

Steve Boyles





Posted on: 2005/9/28 18:06
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Re: Kukishinden Tenshin Hyoho "Denshukai" in Ayabe city, Japan
Kutaki Postmaster
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Quote:
Russ has lived in Japan long enough to know the burden was on him and his teacher's to contact Hatsumi Sensei if it is okay to publically post on a Bujinkan website advertising this seminar inviting everyone to train in their ryu-ha.


I don´t think thats how it works. Sôke is not in charge of Kutaki, it´s Shawns board. The invitation was made in public and not only on Kutaki and it´s everybody´s own responsibility to check if it is appropriate to attend.
Imagine Russ or his teacher calling sensei asking for his permission to post on Kutaki...

Karsten

Posted on: 2005/9/29 0:12
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karsten helmholz

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Re: Kukishinden Tenshin Hyoho "Denshukai" in Ayabe city, Japan
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Mago’s comments do not reflect well on himself or his dojo. But let’s dissect his statements. His behaviour doesn’t evidence much knowledge about budo, Japan or much of anything else beyond the end of his (long) nose.

- Mago’s overwhelming theme is to personally attack other posters. This is a tactic well known on E-budo. In any event, it usually means that the poster knows that his arguments have no weight or grounding, and instead of conceding the point, they lash out at others. This is demean anything said by the poster, despite veracity. The employer of this tactic has, by time of deployment, usually lost the argument and is reduced to a situation akin to that of the Black Knight in the Quest for the Holy Grail.

- Perhaps Mago needs to be reminded that it is up to Soke, not him, to decide when, how and with whom Bujinkan members can train and retain status within the Bujinkan. Until Mago is promoted to Soke, he is not in a position to render any judgments on anything and passing his own opinion off as law is not only misleading but just plain wrong. I don’t give one hoot about Magokoro’s opinions, but I think it is very embarrassing of him to come and proverbially piss all over things in front of the entire world because he feels a right to.

One bad egg can ruin the lot, even when it’s their own personal situation dictating their unhappiness and actions, far removed from anything related to budo.

I like that Kutaki exists, despite problems encountered on it. Closed forums are fine, but can get a bit stale. Shawn should be praised for keeping this thing going, not yelled at by some two-bit pedantic who should leave trolling to the professionals (ON ANOTHER BOARD).

GV

Posted on: 2005/9/29 2:06
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Re: Kukishinden Tenshin Hyoho "Denshukai" in Ayabe city, Japan
村長 :: Sonchou
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Thread drifting... Topic is closed.

Posted on: 2005/9/29 2:32
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Jan Ramboer
Bujinkan Dojo Brussels

‘It is only when the eyes and the brain get exhausted that there are no lies and you can get the truth’ Thomas Hirschhorn
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