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Carrying Knives
Permanent Village Fixture
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From Wales, United Kingdom
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I just found this link on the BBC website.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4542536.stm

The link to the actual website is here.

http://www.itsnotagame.org/

An interesting approach I think. Whether it will get its message across is another thing though.

I believe that many people carry weapons around as "bling-bling", i.e. as a status symbol amongst their peers, something to show off with. Rarely though do they consider the consequences of actually using these weapons.

Do any of the Kutaki members involved in law enforcement have any thoughts on this based on their experiences?

Posted on: 2005/12/20 18:31
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Andrew K Jones

"Ultimately, we must forget technique, but forgetting about technique is not the same as never having learned it."
Hideharu Onuma
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Re: Carrying Knives
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The US had it's fun with the old "just say no to drugs" campaign. The intendended population for this commercial is the same West Side Story gang type. I don't think this is intended for the majority of martial artists.

If you are going to carry, you better know how to use it!

Marty

Posted on: 2005/12/20 18:38
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Re: Carrying Knives
村長 :: Sonchou
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Hi there,

This is a very good point that Marty brings up here. If one trains how to use a knife, then one will probably also train how to defend against a knife as well. Now if one has trained for quite some time and has acquired some skill with a knife, then one most likely will not need to carry around a knife at all.

I was once asked by a friend of mine if I thought it would be a good idea for him to take a knife for 'protection' while travelling. You see, this friend of mine was planning on travelling by bus accross the whole country over the summer and would be doing a lot of camping. This friend of mine had had no prior knife training and only a brief exposure to some martial arts.

I advised strongly against this idea of carrying for protection. I believe that it would actually be more dangerous to carry a weapon if one doesn't know how to use it.

To illustrate my point, here is something that happened about six years ago in my home town. A fight that broke out during the day time on a sidewalk right down town in front of a seedy bar. The aggressor was unarmed. The other, who decided not to run away, pulled out a knife in hopes of scaring the aggressor off. Unfortunately, the aggressor was more skilled at using a knife and was probably more willing to use it. He quickly disarmed the other person and proceeded to slash the man's face diagonally from top to bottom.

If you are skilled, you do not need to carry a knife. If you are unskilled, please do not carry a knife. And if you are in between, please keep training and do not carry a knife.

Posted on: 2005/12/20 22:19
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Re: Carrying Knives
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IMO its not smart to carry knives around as its a lose-lose proposition if you pull it out under less than the most life threatening of situations. The issue described of knowing how to use the knife (proportional force) is also very important. If you do choose to carry, then the 4" or less blade(legal) is essential so the law doesn't make life miserable for you. All this said, I would recommend you consider a 4-6 inch, stiff, hair comb in the back pocket. If you are fairly well trained, it can provide an improvised equalizer versus a knife etc... Its legal and you can always drop your comb after the other guy "looses" his weapon--and, after you level the playing field. Of course the variety of improvised tools from the local environment is preferable(trash-can lids, chairs, rolled up newspapers/magazines, a sharpened pencil, your briefcase etc.... Best defense of all is to blend and not place yourself in harms way(nin).

Posted on: 2005/12/20 22:43
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Re: Carrying Knives
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Diamondjoe said:-
Quote:
To illustrate my point, here is something that happened about six years ago in my home town. A fight that broke out during the day time on a sidewalk right down town in front of a seedy bar. The aggressor was unarmed. The other, who decided not to run away, pulled out a knife in hopes of scaring the aggressor off. Unfortunately, the aggressor was more skilled at using a knife and was probably more willing to use it. He quickly disarmed the other person and proceeded to slash the man's face diagonally from top to bottom.


I remember a few years back, I worked with a young lad. I discovered that he carried a craft knife (Stanley knife) around with him when he was out and about. He explained that it was a deterrent in case he was attacked. During our conversation it became apparent that he wouldn't know how to use the knife anyway and that he was completely unprepared for the consequences that might arise. As Diamondjoe pointed out, if this lad ever drew his knife in a situation, he would probably find himself quickly disarmed and then injured/killed by his own weapon.

On a note relating back to my original post, I also once worked with a guy who carried an Airsoft Glock around, tucked in his waist band. He liked to impress people (including himself) with how cool and hard he was. Funny, because one night he was coming out of the gym to find himself surrounded by the local armed response unit whereupon he was arrested etc.

Just to reinforce the point and prevent any misinterpretation of the thread, I didn't bring the subject up to see whether people thought that WE should carry knives. Obviously I don't condone such behaviour in any way. The intention of this thread is hopefully for those with experience of dealing with real world situations involving knives (e.g. Law Enforcement) to share some of their insights into the mentality of those who carry knives. Perhaps I should have made that clearer in the original post - I'll try harder next time.

Posted on: 2005/12/20 22:56
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Andrew K Jones

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Re: Carrying Knives
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Quote:


Just to reinforce the point and prevent any misinterpretation of the thread, I didn't bring the subject up to see whether people thought that WE should carry knives. Obviously I don't condone such behaviour in any way. The intention of this thread is hopefully for those with experience of dealing with real world situations involving knives (e.g. Law Enforcement) to share some of their insights into the mentality of those who carry knives. Perhaps I should have made that clearer in the original post - I'll try harder next time.


I don't understand what you're trying to say here, are you saying that carrying knives is some evil illegal act? "The mentality of those who carry knives"?

I've been carrying a Sypderco for decades. I don't get your point. Are we Bujinkan members suppose to *not* carry knives as a statement of how "good" we are??

California made folding knives legal to carry and concele in the late 90's, regardless of the size. Pocket clips from knives are a common sight here. It was an unusual step for the state of CA seeing as our beloved blue State seems to be opposed to virtually anything useful in self-defense, but there it is...

Posted on: 2005/12/21 2:50
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Re: Carrying Knives
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No, no, no, not at all. I thought there might be some confusion over what I meant.

To prove that point, right now as I sit here typing I have a knife in my pocket. It is there because I use a knife and other tools as part of my job. I'm not referring in any way to such activities.

Go back to my original post at the start of this thread. Read the article that I gave a link to and then watch the video at the second link. I'm referring to those who carry knives (and indeed other weapons) as a status symbol amongst their peers in the context being shown in the video clip.

That's why I specifically asked for input from Law Enforcement personnel. In their jobs, they probably come across people who are armed in some way far more than most of us do during our everyday lives. I thought they might be able to provide an insight into the mental aspects of why these people might carry knives.

Posted on: 2005/12/21 5:37
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Andrew K Jones

"Ultimately, we must forget technique, but forgetting about technique is not the same as never having learned it."
Hideharu Onuma
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Re: Carrying Knives
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Here's a little knife info from sunny Florida...

Unfortunately on South Beach more and more people are carrying knives. Its becoming a security nightmare for the nightclubs. I have lost count of how many people I have had to kick out of clubs for flashing knives around. We pat down Bodyguarding teams for guns but we don't search for knives, its the most of the clubs policy. Then again half of the bodyguarding teams here don't have a clue about personal protection (thats a whole other issue, just wanted to vent that). The police don't really want to deal with it so they just smack your hand and send you on your way when it comes to knife issues.

Antizen, I carry a knife also, I'm with you on that. It's a shame that other people who carry knives don't think before they react. They make our case a little tougher.

Posted on: 2005/12/21 5:46
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Re: Carrying Knives
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Sorry Mr. Jones...I forgot to mention that I have been working with and alongside the Law Enforcement community for quite a few years, at many levels.

Posted on: 2005/12/21 5:50
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Re: Carrying Knives
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Ah ha, this is the kind of thing I was trying to get at.

Based upon your experiences, why do you suppose that knives are becoming more prevalent? Do you think that it's because people feel they have a genuine need to protect themselves? Do you feel that it's more a case of making themselves look and feel cool/hard to people around them? Do you feel it is something else entirely?

If knives are becoming more prevalent, is it the case that people are becoming more willing to use them in fights (i.e. is there a rise in knife-related attacks/injuries in your area)?

Posted on: 2005/12/21 5:59
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Andrew K Jones

"Ultimately, we must forget technique, but forgetting about technique is not the same as never having learned it."
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