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Re: Kutaki Access - Important!
Villager
Joined:
2003/12/7 10:45
From The Netherlands
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I support the move that has been made ; the reasons are very clearly stated and the goal seems very realistic.
Trying to upgrade the level of posting on a forum by making the possibility to post a little bit harder is a healthy move.

But i'm also a little bit in doubt.
What if there is no progress after , let's say a year ?
There is the possibility that some members will go and new members will join , that always happens to a forum
I think overall we just have to wait and see what the future has installed for the kutaki board

Posted on: 2006/3/19 20:19
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Re: Kutaki Access - Important!
Village Old Timer
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Although I think it is a good idea to have 'actual' Bujinkan members posting on here, I have my doubts as to the quality of the discussions that will continue. Does having a Bujinkan membership make you a better practitioner. No, that comes through training. Does having a membership mean that your posts are any more relevant. No, relevance comes with training; 'Proper training'. (Oh no! worms! Who used the can opener?)

Posted on: 2006/3/19 22:30
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Re: Kutaki Access - Important!
村長 :: Sonchou
Joined:
2003/1/27 20:40
From Brussels
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Quote:

Having the yellow card makes you a yellow card holder...


*sigh*

Having the yellow card makes you on top of a yellow card holder also a bujinkan member(see http://www.bujinkan.com/guidelines.htm number 6, btw the only official bujinkan website on the net).

Since kutaki is aimed towards bujinkan members.... 1+1=2

And yes, there are very valuable opinions from non-bujinkan members, but there are also a myriad of other martial art forums where you can read excellent posts.

Take care,

Jan

Posted on: 2006/3/19 23:40
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Jan Ramboer
Bujinkan Dojo Brussels

‘It is only when the eyes and the brain get exhausted that there are no lies and you can get the truth’ Thomas Hirschhorn
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Re: Kutaki Access - Important!
Deleted_
Like I said, I'm sure the board will be MUCH better, now!

Being a Bujinkan member has always been the obvious difference between a good poster and a bad one!

Finally, after years and years of serving the greater Bujinkan community with terrible results, Kutaki will take the 'logical' step of knocking off people who don't want to submit their membership cards!

Look, it doesn't harm me that I won't be able to participate (because I won't bother to submit the card). I'm not all that interested in the online discussion community anymore anyway. I'm simply pointing out that this move will do NOTHING to improve the board. NOTHING.

THe biggest impediment to good discussion is the flood of people who want to jump into a discussion without any real knowledge of the topic, and a bad attitude to boot. On this site, many of those people have those little yellow cards.

Submitting the yellow card will not make you a better forum participant.

Obviously, the choice has been made. That's fine. As I said, it doesn't harm me. I'm saying this because I think it's a mistake to change the board in this way. That's all. In another 6 weeks, you won't have to worry about it.

Posted on: 2006/3/20 0:41
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Re: Kutaki Access - Important!
村長 :: Sonchou
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Quote:

Tenchijin wrote:
I'm not all that interested in the online discussion community anymore anyway. I'm simply pointing out that this move will do NOTHING to improve the board. NOTHING.

That is your opinion, there are others who think differently.
Like others said: the future will tell.
But for not being interested in the community, you still do like to post your opinions on the handling of this community.

Quote:

THe biggest impediment to good discussion is the flood of people who want to jump into a discussion without any real knowledge of the topic, and a bad attitude to boot. On this site, many of those people have those little yellow cards.


Yes, many of those have a yellow card. But we will take the part of those who don't have it, away.

Quote:

Submitting the yellow card will not make you a better forum participant.


That is indeed a fact. But I think you misread what we posted because this was never stated.


Have a nice Sunday afternoon,

Jan

Posted on: 2006/3/20 2:30
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Jan Ramboer
Bujinkan Dojo Brussels

‘It is only when the eyes and the brain get exhausted that there are no lies and you can get the truth’ Thomas Hirschhorn
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Re: Kutaki Access - Important!
Deleted_
Quote:
That is your opinion, there are others who think differently.
Like others said: the future will tell.
But for not being interested in the community, you still do like to post your opinions on the handling of this community.


Of course it's my opinion, and obviously a minority one at that. But right now, I'm still a villager, and this is the village voice forum!

As far as 'not being interested' in 'the community'. I'm not interested in the general online community. I am interested in what happens to this board for a couple reasons:

1. I've been a member here since the earliest days
2. I've known Shawn a long time and know all the crap he goes through to keep this board going
3. I think it's a mistake to do this.

So far, it seems that none of the improvements to this board have done much.

1. Requiring shidoshikai forum members to scan their cards
2. Requiring forum participants to list real names in profiles
3. Requiring forum participants to list real names on ALL posts
4. Now this rule.

Yet, people continue to complain about the degeneration of the board. Why? It's because those rules have very little to do with quality conversation. The boards where conversation is best are boards where troublesome or rude posters are just deleted immediately. Aside from that, none of the other things seem to help.

I've expressed my opinion fully on this topic now. I will not write any further. Thanks for reading.

Posted on: 2006/3/20 3:40
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Re: Kutaki Access - Important!
Active Kutakian
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2005/11/5 6:54
From Vancouver, WA
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I'm reminded of the quote (excuse the spelling) "Irhem papiers sind nicht in ordnung!" I'd like to know what happens when the card carrying members who bother to update are un satisfied with themselves. My guess is that I won't be able to see that. How long before it becomes only a shidoshikai forum? And after they decide the posts are still too silly, then what?
Top five things this smacks of:

1) Certain members who have been smacked down because their logic is flawed and they hate that.
2)Bliss ninnies who hate confrontation when it is directed at their inane posts.
3)An attempt to keep everything looking rosey.
4)A certain cultural mindset that prefers elitism no matter how socialist they become. And with that, the fetish for identification.
5)A way to keep Ralph from making memebers mad when he forces the "mirror" their face.
This is Shawn's site. He did a great job with it.... As some would say it is not a democracy, it's more like a puppet regime with ill advisors.

PS villages, even when online, need outsiders so that they don't start producing genetically weak offspring.

Posted on: 2006/3/20 4:42
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Re: Kutaki Access - Important!
Kutaki Postmaster
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2004/1/11 15:11
From Colorado
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I would have to agree with Aric on this. Shawn does do a lot of work, with the moderators, to keep this going. Kutaki has been and can be a good source of information regarding training, history, dojo's etc.

The issues that seem to detract from this value are:

1) Discussions that seem a bit off the track. Honestly, anyone who knows me knows I am a fanatic about my dogs. However, a thread on dog walking? Or for that matter a long discussion of meditation and Christian values? I am unclear how those relate to training in the art.

2) A repetitive set of questions and arguments such as who the next Soke will be or does our training have worth. As to the later if you are asking than why train.

3) Long threads that are not much more than hard to read discussions that seem to lead to well nowhere. Not to say that Ralph does not have points but generally it is a bit hard to follow him and those he argues with sometimes.

4) People asking legitimate questions that get slammed for asking as seems to have happened in the thread on training police.

Free speech is something I am all for but even free speech is governed by rules of conduct. So will having a card mean better interactions? Probably not. A card that costs $20 US and can be gotten from a Shidoshi if you are training is hardly a barrier to entry.

Perhaps a better approach is to establish some rules of conduct that we all agree to adhere to and to just cut off the off topic threads and some of the rude interactions that do more to discourage inquiry and thought than provoke it.

My two cents. Now for that dog walk.

Posted on: 2006/3/20 5:55
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Alan Witty...
www.warriorwindma.com
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Re: Kutaki Access - Important!
Deleted_
Wow... not sure how this could be construed as having anything to do with Ralph. He really has little bearing on the board, or the Bujinkan at large for that matter.

Anyway, I understand Aric's point but the fact of the matter is that every year *all* members of the Bujinkan are required to have a membership card, be it the little yellow one or the Shidoshi one.

If this prompts a few more people to follow the rules of the organization they claim to be a part of more power to it.

Then again I also agree that it will have zero impact on improving the quality of discussion. By nature budo is not discussable... there really is nothing of use on this site except the Dojo X and Seminar Announcement forums anyway. (That goes for all martial arts sites, I am not slamming Kutaki...)

Posted on: 2006/3/20 6:19
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Re: Kutaki Access - Important!
Permanent Village Fixture
Joined:
2005/4/28 14:10
From Centerville, Ohio
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Gentlemen, there is a very simple answer to your complaints.

I am an absolute fan of the phrase "vote with your feet." If you don't like it, leave. This applies to anything in life. It is no one else's responsibility to make a forum that you like. If you have better ideas, make your own forum. This isn't intended to make anyone angry. Honestly, the quickest fix for being unhappy in a situation is to leave that situation.

The only change here is that Bujinkan discussions on a Bujinkan specific forum will be held by Bujinkan members only from now on. From my understanding the conversations that are being talked about can even still take place, just not all over the entire board. I would love to have a few discussions about martial things without the automatic complication post of "Bujinkan vs ________" and why it's different there because star bellied sneetches are better.

I think it's a good idea, so I'm staying.
If you think it's a bad idea, leave the forum. There are others.

Posted on: 2006/3/20 6:20
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Love and punches,
Nate Hallum
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