Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
Socialize
 

Recent Topics
Topic Replies Last Post
Wedding gift... can someone help me to translate it? 6 2018/6/30 20:50
Barga18
Aomori-Ken 0 2018/6/19 10:27
hanzo-tou
Certificates 0 2018/5/8 4:34
schistkicker
Home Project: Shadowbox 3 2018/4/25 21:44
roufus
Ichiba 0 2018/2/21 1:18
Dpinga

Browsing this Thread:   1 Anonymous Users



« 1 (2) 3 4 5 »


Re: To kill or not to kill - Gyokko Ryu
Cant Stay Offline
Joined:
2003/8/1 23:57
From Hamina, Finland
Group:
村民 :: Villager
議長 :: Mod
師導士会 :: Shidoshikai
Posts: 1682
Offline
Sôke once said something along the lines of "if you need to take the most extreme measure, then be absolutely sure the opponent deserves it".....

Posted on: 2006/6/1 3:31
_________________
Ari Julku
Shidōshi
Bujinkan Ōari Dōjō
(Bujinkan Budōka since 1985)
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: To kill or not to kill - Gyokko Ryu
Villager
Joined:
2005/4/13 7:30
From Manaus, Brazil
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 98
Offline
This is all very serious stuff, we would all do well to listen to the voice of experience on things like this, Soke, and Papa San on this thread have so much to teach, thank you! As Papa San mentioned when someone conciously decides to infringe upon someones most basic rights he has given up his own. It is then up to the warrior to weigh the values at stake and act accordingly.


Gambate Kudosai
John Holladay
Bujinkan Manaus, Brazil

Posted on: 2006/6/1 3:32
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: To kill or not to kill - Gyokko Ryu
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2003/2/3 21:14
From Norway
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 188
Offline
Hi all

Hope I didn't come out all evil in the previous post - my intentions was merely to point to a possible professional soldiers point of few, rather than the common civil point of view. After all, our systems are mostly based and built for the battlefield, AFAIK. And this is something I feel that we often overlook.

Nevertheless, history is history - it is how you put the knowledge of the past into use today, that matters - hence for most of us civilians we are lucky we don't usually have to make the desition as to weather an enemy shall live or die.

Sincerely,
Goran Gronvold

Posted on: 2006/6/2 2:30
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: To kill or not to kill - Gyokko Ryu
Villager
Joined:
2005/4/13 7:30
From Manaus, Brazil
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 98
Offline
Hey Goran,

I just wanted to say your post was great, one could even take that strategy and apply it in the bussiness and social world. Anyone in leadership knows these things fully well. Something I think is of the essense is also the will factor. A soldier is following orders, a civilian, however, is entirely responsible for the orders and executions of his actions. I personaly believe that specialy in the case of the civilian Spiritual Refinement is first and foremost, only with that understanding he can be properly equiped to make such judgements should the circumstance present itself. Skill level also comes into play, someone with less experience is more likely to kill his opponent for fear of not having subdued the oponent with a lesser force. I have a friend that practices Kyokushin Karate and since all he trains in is to hit as hard as he can, he almost killed his girlfriend´s brother after an argument turned into a fight. When I aske him why he didn´t mesure his attack he told me that he "blanked out" and only came to after the guys face was bloody pulp. I only tell this story to illustrate the fact that in a real conflict what comes out is what we put in, in our very training we could be deciding the outcome of a future conflict, please, let us not overlook such things.

John Holladay
Brazil - Manaus Bujinkan

Posted on: 2006/6/3 4:39
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: To kill or not to kill - Gyokko Ryu
Permanent Village Fixture
Joined:
2005/9/29 16:19
From Austin,TX
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 392
Offline
I remember reading in one of Soke's books that Takamatsu Sensei used to say that the foundation of Budo is in Gyokko ryu.

This probably means something.

Posted on: 2006/6/3 5:40
_________________
......Samuel Zavaletta

Please be careful not to have preconceptions, and to always remember the idea of truth-and-falsehood.
-- Hatsum
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: To kill or not to kill - Gyokko Ryu
Cant Stay Offline
Joined:
2003/6/13 23:29
From Pennsylvania, USA
Group:
村民 :: Villager
議長 :: Mod
師導士会 :: Shidoshikai
Posts: 1834
Offline
John, I think you make a VERY important point on "what comes out depends on what we put in"!!! WE are responsible for what we put in, IT IS OUR choice on what training we accept and follow. If it is too rigid and does not allow for adaptation to the situation at hand, then we can really get into problems. How does your friend now feel after beating his girl-friend's brother so badly? Was that something he needed to do? Probably NOT!! What happened to the relationship with his "girl-friend as a result? This is one of the reason you hear about such things as "brother-in-law" techniques in our art. Ways to control someone who really doesn't need to be badly hurt, only restrained until he/she sobers up or settles down.
Ed Martin aka Papa-san

Posted on: 2006/6/3 21:09
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: To kill or not to kill - Gyokko Ryu
Frequent Visitor
Joined:
2004/12/27 3:06
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 16
Offline
I think that many of you guys here are taking martial arts too lightly...they think that, if are praticing martial art since last year, from a 100 pound helpless man have become an infinite skilled fighter.

They think that, because of this little pratice, they can hand other's lives as they want, as picking up a flower.

Think that if a person is not engaged in martial arts, he/she still can still be someone you can't defeat, even if you don't think this...you think you're good, you think you can concentrate internal powers, you've got good technique etc...
but if one watch at you, even only from athletical performances' side (and not only run ups), without taking in account the martial technique, that can't be seen, for example, while doing pull ups, it seems (and it's probably right) that you're a weak man.

Other people's physical condition can be better than your so, you can't fill this difficult with technique, because you haven't one, and they definitely can beat you.
Oh, and for have a match and show that you can beat someone, in the case you're getting frustrated, don't pick any stupid kid/boy, take a man who does a hard physical work and that it's weight proportion it's equal or major than 160 cm -> 70 kg.

This was to clarify that way too many of you "!martial artist!" (however this is a wrong name) aren't good and they can live and thinking they're good just because they escape matches that can show your skill, without sitting too much on technique, like athletic (from weight lifting to pull ups) and free kumite. If your school, dojo (or you) avoid this too much, then you're just escaping from the truth.
Think about this.

Posted on: 2006/6/6 17:48
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: To kill or not to kill - Gyokko Ryu
Active Kutakian
Joined:
2004/1/23 3:55
Group:
村民 :: Villager
師導士会 :: Shidoshikai
Posts: 107
Offline
Buyu-Think "juppo sessho". Otherwise let's leave the potential of death and total destruction to our "tatami time" with our seniors. Until then let's keep going. Best wishes.

Posted on: 2006/6/8 2:45
_________________
"Colonel Bob" Thomas
Berlin, Maryland, USA
Bujinkan Taka Seigi Dojo of Berlin
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: To kill or not to kill - Gyokko Ryu
Permanent Village Fixture
Joined:
2005/4/28 14:10
From Centerville, Ohio
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 301
Offline
As uncle Ben would say "with great power comes great responsibility." You can't just kill people who attack you, and the brother in law example is perfect. Self protection is about more than physical damage.

If you aren't good enough at a technique to be safe when you stop applying it....you don't really have the technique to begin with. I've done some soul searching on this and I've found that I would prefer to leave any attacker unscathed if I can. Then we're both safe. I hear the lesson all the time that if you beat someone up and break their bones, then they are mad at YOU and they may even come back with friends. In that case it's only a matter of time before they have enough resources to kill you. Or they take the easier route and hurt your family. But if you don't harm them, and they're just confused at what happened...Confused at the futility of their actions...then their thoughts are directed inward and they are mad at THEMSELVES. You have effectively escaped if the latter is the case.

Violence begets violence. Maybe the way we train normally IS shinken gata. "Real fighting." Maybe doing techniques in a way that keeps your uke safe is the way you should do them against a real attacker.

-----------
"I think that many of you guys here are taking martial arts too lightly...they think that, if are praticing martial art since last year, from a 100 pound helpless man have become an infinite skilled fighter."

--No one thinks this.

If you start a new thread on the topic of your post I will be happy to share my full thoughts on it there.

Posted on: 2006/6/8 5:44
_________________
"The goal of opening the mind, as with opening the mouth, is to close it again on something solid."
Love and punches,
Nate Hallum
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: To kill or not to kill - Gyokko Ryu
Villager
Joined:
2005/4/13 7:30
From Manaus, Brazil
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 98
Offline
´d like to say a word or two to our nameless and frequent visitor. As clumsy as your English is I can still grasp the intention of your thoughts. First of all I have been practicing martial arts since I was a kid, I beleive that like myself this community has a good number of people that share my experience. I´m going to asume from your tone that you practice some kind of competitive martial art. I have practiced those myself and I´m confident that a good part of my Budo comes from that experience, however, I think my previous post is an obvious example of the shortcomings of such mentality in real life situations. Anyone who has aquired a reasonable amount or proficiency in the martial arts understands how trivial size and strength can be even in competitions if the smaller guy is more skiled. Now in real life this becomes even more evident because of the element of unpredictability. Here´s another tragic MA story to illustrate this: My father knew a 8th Dan Judo Teacher whom he worked with, this guy was huge and had great ability, one night a jelous lover aproaches him and his date at a bar and starts a fight, he skillfully throws the lover a good beating, as he sits back down his date stabs him from under the table and continues to do so 36 times until he is as dead as dead can be. No amount of size, strength, or skill was able to save him. Those who can´t see the luminosity of what Soke is teaching will continue to wonder in the god forsaken wasteland of illusion which which will ultimately blind the Budoka if he looks with his eyes and brain and not his heart. It´s been said many are called but few will be chosen it would be childish to think the MA are an exeption to this. The funny thing is that the chosen chose themselves. Finaly, please, in the future be thorough and make sure you understand your subject before you go out and make a total fool out of yourself.

Gambate Kudosai!!!
John Holladay
Manaus Bujinkan - Brazil

Posted on: 2006/6/8 6:05
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer



« 1 (2) 3 4 5 »




[Advanced Search]


Today's Sponsor