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Re: Which books would you recommend?
Village Old Timer
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Quote:

luisfdoh wrote:
Gyokko Ryû - Taijutsu no Kata.
Modern Densho

http://passaic-bujinkan-buyu.setech-co.com/PBB-item-mab001.html

Amazing book.


Too many mistakes.

Posted on: 2010/10/23 16:12
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Re: Which books would you recommend?
Honorary Villager
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But in live what does not have mistakes? Still is a great concept and in my opinion a great tool,, don't you think so?

Have you heard the expression "Shoshin" from Zen? Beginners mind, Zen mind?

Posted on: 2010/10/24 13:09
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Re: Which books would you recommend?
Village Old Timer
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Quote:

luisfdoh wrote:
But in live what does not have mistakes?


If you are publishing a reference book it should not contain mistakes.

[quote]
luisfdoh wrote:
Still is a great concept and in my opinion a great tool,, don't you think so?
/quote]

I don't think so at all. This book will only appeal to those who don't have access to a teacher who actually knows the things you will find in the book. If you have a good instructor then the book is useless.

Posted on: 2010/10/24 14:58
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Re: Which books would you recommend?
Kutaki Postmaster
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Quote:

benkyoka wrote:
If you are publishing a reference book it should not contain mistakes. ?


Even our definitive reference book UFTOTS?

Apparently it has many, some even allegedly deliberate.


Posted on: 2010/10/24 21:25
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Re: Which books would you recommend?
Village Old Timer
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If you have a teacher who actually knows the stuff that book is not very useful as well.

Posted on: 2010/10/24 22:01
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Re: Which books would you recommend?
Honorary Villager
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Well, your comments are valid how ever if the book have "several mistakes" I want to know those "mistakes" are according with whom? or, as per the point of view of whom?

I have used it as text book and at the same time I've been comparing its content and descriptions with my own notes (more than one!), with videos from schools around the world and I use as a general reference the "Unarmed Fighting Techniques of the Samurai" (complicated to understand most of the times) founding more similarities than differences; it is a great teaching tool and the students enjoy it very much.

Anyway this book, as you mentioned before, is the interpretation of its Author and those who gave him support on his project, one of them is Shihan Steven Frolich (15th Dan - Germany), so you mean he is not a "good instructor?" In my opinion he is fantastic (I recently trained with him in NJ), but as every Shihan he used his perspectives and experiences on their teaching, probably you can feel differences with your personal instructor but it does not mean his point of view is not valid, either yours.

When Hatsumi sensei demonstrate techniques he goes to the right, to the left, etc., and it is still correct; I have heard from him at the Hombu that "is nothing wrong on this art, because everything depends of different situations and even personalities"; it is demonstrated every day for the Japanese Shihans, let's do a simple exercise, Have you seing Ichimonji No Kamae by Noguchi Sensei? is great isn't it? have you seing the same Kamae from Nagato Sensei? is awesome but still is not the same as Noguchi Sensei, and have you seing the same Kamae by Oguri Sensei? totally different. Who of them does it exactly like Hatsumi Sensei? and even do, he does it as Takamatsu Sensei?

Shoshin "Beginner's Mind", if we are able to see everything with an "open mind" we will have thousands of possibilities, it is the interpretation of the famous statement "empty your tea pot"; let's pretend to be beginners and let's try to learn other point of view, other henka, no matter the name you want to use, when we believe and feel that we are experts we see more mistakes than the real ones up there.

Posted on: 2010/10/25 1:41
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Luis F. Hernandez
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Re: Which books would you recommend?
Village Old Timer
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Quote:

luisfdoh wrote:
Well, your comments are valid how ever if the book have "several mistakes" I want to know those "mistakes" are according with whom? or, as per the point of view of whom?


The book does not appear to be a translation of the densho, but rather someone's thoughts on how the kata in that ryuha are done. Perhaps it is just the title that is misleading.


Quote:

luisfdoh wrote:
I have used it as text book and at the same time I've been comparing its content and descriptions with my own notes (more than one!), with videos from schools around the world and I use as a general reference the "Unarmed Fighting Techniques of the Samurai" (complicated to understand most of the times) founding more similarities than differences;


The differences would be fairly important, don't you think? And not the differences between your notes but the differences between the book and the densho.

Quote:

luisfdoh wrote:
it is a great teaching tool and the students enjoy it very much.


It doesn't matter if your students enjoy it or not. They are not equipped enough to determine what is correct and what is not.


Quote:

luisfdoh wrote:
Anyway this book, as you mentioned before, is the interpretation of its Author and those who gave him support on his project, one of them is Shihan Steven Frolich (15th Dan - Germany), so you mean he is not a "good instructor?"


I haven't trained with the author or Stefan Frolich so I don't know if they are good teachers or not. A 15th dan does not a good teacher make.


Quote:

luisfdoh wrote:
it is demonstrated every day for the Japanese Shihans, let's do a simple exercise, Have you seing Ichimonji No Kamae by Noguchi Sensei? is great isn't it? have you seing the same Kamae from Nagato Sensei? is awesome but still is not the same as Noguchi Sensei, and have you seing the same Kamae by Oguri Sensei? totally different. Who of them does it exactly like Hatsumi Sensei? and even do, he does it as Takamatsu Sensei?


Why are they different? Are they different because Nogochi is more flexible? Because Oguri has a bad back? Are they even demonstrating Ichimonji from the same school?


Quote:

luisfdoh wrote:
Shoshin "Beginner's Mind", if we are able to see everything with an "open mind" we will have thousands of possibilities, it is the interpretation of the famous statement "empty your tea pot"; let's pretend to be beginners and let's try to learn other point of view, other henka, no matter the name you want to use, when we believe and feel that we are experts we see more mistakes than the real ones up there.


I like this. But let's change it from having a beginner's, or empty, mind to a beginner's, or empty, stomach. A hungry child will eat almost anything and doesn't know what is good food for the body and bad food for the body. The parents responsibility is to make sure that the child gets the proper food so he can grow up healthy. If the parents feed the child poorly he will suffer in the long term. It is the same with Budo. A beginner does not know what is correct and what is incorrect, what is good for his budo and what is not. As such he will take whatever he can get his hands on, but it might not be healthy in the (budo) long term.

Posted on: 2010/10/25 12:23
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Re: Which books would you recommend?
Honorary Villager
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Shoshin is not apply only for real Beginners, you misunderstood , what I was explained is the mind we, as martial artists, must to have no matter our rank. Your empty stomach example was very good but does not have the point.

We still have a lot to learn, isn't it? thank you for all your comments.

Posted on: 2010/10/25 23:02
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Luis F. Hernandez
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Re: Which books would you recommend?
Kutaki Postmaster
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Q: How many ninjas does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Seven. One to change the bulb and six to write books about the experience.

Ok, that's an old joke, but while there is plenty of criticism to go around, are there any suggestions about what one of our own should write? Perhaps its for a new thread, but I wonder - does anyone have an idea of what would be a useful book about Bujinkan arts, and who would be qualified, or better, what qualifications would be required to write it? Just for the sake of discussion...

Posted on: 2010/10/25 23:39
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Re: Which books would you recommend?
Honorary Villager
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That's a great opinion and actually it is Shoshin :)

Posted on: 2010/10/26 0:31
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Luis F. Hernandez
Passaic Bujinkan Buyu
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Fax. (484) 727-0538

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