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Turmoil
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The world will remain in turmoil as long as governments continue to control the common man.

Peace can only come about after a systematic breakdown of these governments has been forced by the common man.

Lets take back the world, live in peace and enjoy its bounty.

Spread the word

Posted on: 2007/1/4 17:17
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Re: Turmoil
村長 :: Sonchou
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Can you explain your poem a bit more?

In the first part I see "turmoil," which is negatively portrayed. Then I see "systematic breakdown" which is "forced by the common man" portrayed in a positive light, without any consideration as to the aims, morals, or principles which motivate the actions of "the common man." To whom exactly does this last term refer? Everyone has different aims, ethics, morals, and motivations. Can you just clump "everyone" together under the term "the common man?"

Regarding the last part:
Take back the world... from what or whom exactly?

How does the effect which is "live in peace" arise from the cause "forced systematic breakdown?" Who or what determines the extent and limit of "force" to be used in the breakdown? Are there rules, regulations, borders, or boundaries that should apply to the use of this force? Won't complete anarchy result if everyone who is included in the term "the common man" seeks to force a systematic breakdown? What factors will make it systematic and who should they be imposed or regulated by? Won't the imposing or regulating power then simply be a form of government?

A tent under which we can rest and repose is held up by the rigidity of its support. Rules, regulation, and control are inherent in the ability to enjoy peace and freedom. Where do you draw the line between too much control of the common man by governments and too little?

Devil's advocate,

Shawn

Posted on: 2007/1/4 18:26
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Re: Turmoil
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Maybe the natural state of the world is turmoil,

Forcing governments to collapse just begets nastier regimes.

The sage cultivates secret talents -

while enjoying the bounty of simple survival.



John Haverkamp

Posted on: 2007/1/5 0:18
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Here's another
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You have to boil nettles before they are edible -

Unless you want to choke on the stingers.

Maybe revolution is like that.

When the pot has boiled enough,

restrictions dissolve overnight -

Like a snake rubbing down to its new skin

In any case,

Forcing change before its time is like eating a chestnut

Before it's pops out of it's shell.


John Haverkamp

Posted on: 2007/1/5 2:03
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Re: Turmoil
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I actually only had a discussion about this with someone yesterday...Lol. In my opinion it's what you call "the common man" which is what makes goverments turn to corruption. Governments tend to start out great but then due to human nature they fall under pretenses of greed, lust, envy....and so on, and so on. But in turn we need a basis of government, as without it the world would turn to chaos (thing such as no law or order set ground rules for people).

You could easily say to just let the people decide as a basis, but that would also place in a form of government of which will eventually become corrupt like the rest.

It is said that people will always need leadership and it seems what your proposing is what is called survival of the fittest. So in order to survive in the world you propose is to become strong within this chaotic world and overthrow and crush anyone in your way...

For some reason I don't think this would work, as much more war would be raised by people trying to take what they want due to there greed in wanting more land or power, so peace would be out of the question.

Just my thoughts.....

Posted on: 2007/1/5 6:48
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Presumably as a martial artist, I do not fight for gain or loss, am not concerned with strength or weakness, and neither advance a step nor retreat a step. The
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Re: Turmoil
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If you look at societies throughout history, those with no unifying government became warring tribes and factions. There was no growth or advancement of medicines, education and so on because simple survival was the main focus.

Once all those people became unified under a commonality, whether through a singular governmental authority (i.e. emporors, kings, etc) or through a collective organization of represented bodies (i.e. Senatorial, etc) or a combination of the two, miraculous advances in society became possible.

Where the downfall of these societies existed seems to be when the people become entirely dependent on the governing body to provide what they should be seeking themselves. Once a government body becomes the "parent" to it's civilization, promising to take care of the every need of it's people, then the conditions are ripe for a democracy to fail.

So, no government is bad and too much government is bad. Somewhere in the middle, with the ability of society to regulate and change it's government to maintain that balance, is what makes a culture flourishing and peaceful.

Of course, that's just my opinion, based on the success and failure of societies throught history. Others may have differing views...

Posted on: 2007/1/5 9:30
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I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, or in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. ~ Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Here's another
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Nice metaphor. This poem distinguishes nicely the difference between revolution and evolution - evolution being the natural process of change. Revolution by defintion is change that happens suddenly and is often accompanied with violence, implying the change has happened too early.

Nice work.

Dean

Posted on: 2007/1/15 8:34
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Re: Turmoil
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This whole poem carries a lot of weight, nice work.

The first line reminds me of a metaphor I often use. Life is like the sky, clouds just arise - that is its nature. If you try to make the clouds disappear you are not seeing the truth of the skys nature and you are fighting fruitlessly against the way things are.

The second line reminds me of what is going on with the US's involvement in Iraq and hints at the natural order of change. Forcing change invokes chaos, moving with change brings peace.

The last two lines for me imbue the sense of harmony a sage experience by seeing truth. Life becomes simple, peaceful and you move with it. His talents, to those who do not see this, appear as secrets.

Well done!

Dean

Posted on: 2007/1/15 8:43
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Re: Turmoil
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Quote:

deancrabb wrote:
If you try to make the clouds disappear you are not seeing the truth of the skys nature and you are fighting fruitlessly against the way things are.

Dean


Actually, just to be pedantic hehehehe: one or two years ago the Russian government made clouds disappear because they were going to spoil the military parade on their independance day. I think they dropped silvernitrate (or something like that) above the clouds to make them disolve. hehehehe

Take care,

Jan

Posted on: 2007/1/15 15:43
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Re: Turmoil
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To explain this poem will take me some time, and I will do just that. Not today, but soon.

It is good to see that we have some learned people in this forum. I wanted to ignite some deep pondering and I see that I have done so.

Thank you for the responses to this post. For those of you who are interested I will peel the onion a lttle more in the coming days.

I love the questions that you ask, the best part is I am not the only one who can answer them.

Posted on: 2007/1/15 17:00
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