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kukishinden ryu
Just Passing Through
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I have a question conserning the waza in kukishinden ryu.
When you go to a seminar you almost always find that the waza is a bit diffrent then the last time you did it. And by looking at the internet you can find even more ways of doing a specific waza. And everyone says that his or her way of doing it is the basicway.Why is it like that?
Best regards. Martin

Posted on: 2007/1/13 22:24
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Re: kukishinden ryu
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Because, for them, it is the basic way.

Posted on: 2007/1/13 22:33
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Re: kukishinden ryu
Just Passing Through
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So if Iam understand you right then ther is no official way of doing the waza.If I some times in the futuer have the possibility to go to Japan to train whit the Shihans, the might tech me diffrent way of doing the same waza.
And thank you for your quick respons.
Best Regards Martin

Posted on: 2007/1/14 0:56
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Re: kukishinden ryu
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You are correct. There is no 'official' way. The way the waza are recorded in the densho is very vague. This is why you need proper instruction and training to understand it. But... although there is no official right way to do the kata, there are wrong ways. ;)

Posted on: 2007/1/14 7:20
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Re: kukishinden ryu
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I have found that no matter what version I'm being shown, they all have the same basic foundation, like good use of space, balance, posture, timing, distance and just effective common sense to whatever the conditions are in the technique (i.e. weapons, armor, grappling, striking, etc).

So, having a good teacher 'should' mean that these aspects will exist in whatever variation you are taught as a kata. Those, to me, mean more to the lesson than the exactness of the technique to the densho (if there is a clear densho version).

Posted on: 2007/1/14 9:00
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Re: kukishinden ryu
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From my experiences, conversations with others, and my understanding thus far, your taijutsu will adapt to you. Thus when you see others doing a waza very differently from each other, they have indeed acclimated and took ownership of the taijutsu.

Yet in agreement with Darren, the understanding of space, timing, posture, and so forth is what I believe is important within the wazas.

Hope this helps. Happy training.

Posted on: 2007/1/14 12:11
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Re: kukishinden ryu
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When in class and looking around... we see all sorts of trainees... They all have their own body, own phyaique, own history, own ways of thinking... so naturally they will perform things "differingly".

The idea ain't to clone someone, though this can be "deliberately misunderstood" and someone might start taking "liberties" with the way things are done.

Again, there comes the teacher and his responsibility... 'cause, as said, there are wrong ways of doing things

Posted on: 2007/1/14 20:54
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Ari Julku
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Re: kukishinden ryu
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Okay, why has no one mentioned kukisabaki in this thread? After all, without that, you are not doing Kukishinden ryu...unless, of course, someone has made some very recent modifications.

Posted on: 2007/1/15 3:48
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Re: kukishinden ryu
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We went through all the kata around 1994 when I lived in Japan plus I've done them at various times since then but I'm probably more vauge on what the exact kata are than most other Ryuha.

I think it is because the "introduction" to each form is quite long and a lot of the form are very very similar. Like Takagi Ryu, once you get into henka many forms blend together.

I hope to learn more about it this year.

Posted on: 2007/1/15 16:52
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Re: kukishinden ryu
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Waza blending together... this is evident (the way I understood this) also in Gyokko-ryû; it's the same Waza over and over again in differing situation, to different attack, from different directions, against different weapons...

But, this - less Waza, more ways of using it - might support the idea of understanding how to use that Waza instead of "learning Kata by heart"?

"Kukisabaki"... indeed, like with every school (AFAIK) there's the "way of moving" that makes the Waza work the way it does in the school in question.

Posted on: 2007/1/15 19:47
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