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Re: kukishinden ryu
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Would anyone care to expound upon some basic points of Kukisabaki?

Posted on: 2007/1/15 23:03
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Re: kukishinden ryu
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Quote:

noname wrote:
Would anyone care to expound upon some basic points of Kukisabaki?


Waltz ... that's all

Posted on: 2007/1/16 1:24
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Re: kukishinden ryu
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Samuel

Kukisabaki: basically you start by doing a standard "ukinagashi" and strike fairly far down the opponent's arm (near the wrist), the next block you sink lower and strike higher up the arm (near the elbow). This lowering and moving in to your opponent is repeated throughout the kata. The idea is simple, the person playing uki looks farther away than he really is. In effect he is closing while backing up. It sounds complex but it is very simple and should be done in all the forms that have more than one "block."
As far as other points, look at a basic + sign. That's the direction you want to your force to move into your opponent. So a strike to the neck (as found in the first kata) should move straight in line perpendicular to the spine.
One last point: the "godan" test comes from Kukishinden ryu and in the olds day, you had to pass the test with whatever weapon you received your menkyo kaiden with. So, if you wanted a menkyo kaiden in spear, you had to pass the test with that weapon. Needless to say, I believe this has been dropped. Too bad.

Posted on: 2007/1/16 4:11
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Re: kukishinden ryu
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Excellent description of Kukisabaki, Mr. Daniel - that's how I was taught (although you 'know' it more deeper than I, I am sure). I was also taught how this works with armor, in using the kote and such to create striking surfaces - and the importance on hitting their weak points and using the unique balance that wearing armor creates. Although, this all applies to not wearing armor as well. It really hit home with the importance of knees.

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One last point: the "godan" test comes from Kukishinden ryu and in the olds day, you had to pass the test with whatever weapon you received your menkyo kaiden with.


Considering that Arnaud got his menkyo kaiden in the big, ol' Tachi sword, that would have been interesting to see! I'm sure he would have still passed just fine, but my heart surely would have skipped a beat or two...

Posted on: 2007/1/16 4:54
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Re: kukishinden ryu
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Quote:

Darren wrote:

Considering that Arnaud got his menkyo kaiden in the big, ol' Tachi sword, that would have been interesting to see! I'm sure he would have still passed just fine, but my heart surely would have skipped a beat or two...


I've never met Arnaud but I wonder if he got some of his Tachi instruction using large boom sticks. I did and it was fun. Actually it was techniques for a Odachi....no chudan no kamae with that weapon.

Posted on: 2007/1/16 5:27
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Re: kukishinden ryu
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Oh, two answers …..

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Tamatora wrote:
Quote:

noname wrote:
Would anyone care to expound upon some basic points of Kukisabaki?


Waltz ... that's all


Quote:

LionsRoar wrote:
Kukisabaki: basically you start by doing a standard "ukinagashi" and strike fairly far down the opponent's arm (near the wrist), the next block you sink lower and strike higher up the arm (near the elbow). This lowering and moving in to your opponent is repeated throughout the kata. The idea is simple, the person playing uki looks farther away than he really is. In effect he is closing while backing up. It sounds complex but it is very simple and should be done in all the forms that have more than one "block."



Posted on: 2007/1/16 7:35
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Re: kukishinden ryu
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Thank you for sharing that very interesting bit of info. Mr. Daniel. I always thought that the Godan test came from Togakure Ryu. And i never knew that different weapons were used, but I do now.

Posted on: 2007/1/16 7:37
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Re: kukishinden ryu
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Harada sensei,
I'm always happy to see that you're keeping an eye on the discussions and I'm a little surprised that your "waltz" answer didn't elicit more curiosity.

I've judged Kukishin sabaki by the holes in my shoe but then again, I'm no dancer.

Take care!

Posted on: 2007/1/16 9:13
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Re: kukishinden ryu
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Quote:

LionsRoar wrote:
One last point: the "godan" test comes from Kukishinden ryu and in the olds day, you had to pass the test with whatever weapon you received your menkyo kaiden with. So, if you wanted a menkyo kaiden in spear, you had to pass the test with that weapon. Needless to say, I believe this has been dropped. Too bad.


Rubbish. Who told you this? I’ll check it out if you want.

Posted on: 2007/1/16 10:32
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Never heard it was from Kukishin-Ryu' or Kukishinden but I wouldn't be surprised. I remember Sensei speaking of having to do Shinken Shirahadori with Takamatsu Sensei attacking with different spear and sword, but never heard from behind.

Sensei has said that it is written in the scrolls of Togakure-Ryu'... And the taijutsu of Togakure-Ryu' is partly based on Gyokko-Ryu' which has attacks from behind, both unarmed and with a sword, in the upper sections.

Kuki Sabaki also entails a closer distance both in starting position and in Uke-nagashi as you go up in the levels. An overall message that the more he attacks, the worst it is for him.

As for the original question on different ways of doing the Kata, the description in the Densho' of the Kata are a bit vague, for instance they might say hip throw or Gyakuwaza and won't say which throw or what specific Gyaku, leading to many different ways of doing the Kata that are still technically correct. In the higher levels, the finishes are more concerned with the Taijutsu than the technique, so the methods are completely Henka based on your position, which makes for even more interpretations of the same kata, but are still correct.

You then also have the Taijutsu of Shinken-Gata, Kukishin-Ryu' DakenTaijutsu and Jutaijutsu which change how the techniques are done, even though they share similarities. Not to mention the influence of wearing armour versus not.

Posted on: 2007/1/16 14:54
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