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Re: Small thought on movement
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Quote:

magbhitu wrote:

As far a Fudo / Immovable hart meaning “empty mind” I have to disagree since the anayise of the Chinese characters does not bare this out. I would render 不動 as non-agitation, or no strong action. The 不 is standard Chinese - no or not. The 動 is formed of the characters for strong and action. There is nothing for 'empty', 'mind' or of 'hart' for that matter present. However the 'hart' is implied in the sense of that the 'no-movement' is understood to occur on the emotional plane. Thus immovable hart – unagitatible hart – also known as 'keeping one's cool'.

I believe that the “empty mind” you folks as disagreeing about is actually Mushin 無心. Of course these concepts are interlinked in Buddhist parlance. Yet, since ShindenFudo Ryu is not called ShindenMushin Ryu, Fudo/不動 must have its own distinct relevance to Budo.


不動 means immovable or fixed.

The 不 means negative, or non-, (or even bad, ugly, clumsy)
The 動 is used in the verbs ugoku (intransitive) and ugokasu (transitive) meaning to move. This is made up of the kanji 重 meaning heavy, pile-up, and 力 meaning power, strong, strain, bear up, exert.

不動心 means immovable heart, mind, spirit.

You won't find this kanji used in Shinden Fudou Ryuu although some people claim that means immovable heart school. 神伝不動流 has a meaning similar to immovable divine transmission/teachings.

I highly recommend the book Zen and Japanese Culture by Daisetz T. Suzuki. There are at least 2 chapters devoted to Zen's relationship to swordsmanship and uses the writings of Takuan (a great zen master) and Yagyu Tajima no kami (a great swordsman, and zen student of Takuan). Much is written about the mind of no-mind (無心の心), and immovability, etc.

If I have time later, I may post some specific references from the book.

Posted on: 2007/3/11 11:26
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Re: Small thought on movement
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Thank you. That's helpful.

Posted on: 2007/3/11 12:08
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Re: Small thought on movement
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Hello

Ayam1:

Quote:
Our emotional responses have their root in the actions of mind (i.e. the thought one thinks). My position is that in order to affect an “immovable heart” one’s mind must be “empty” of the “noise” of the conscious part of the mind. If one’s mind is empty as I define it, then it is empty of change or movement. If the mind is empty, then the heart remains centered or “unmovable”. In this context, I believe the connection to Fudo is clear.


I certainly don't disagree with the above.

Benkyoka: You're translations are more correct - I was going from memory. As you can probably tell I'm a monolingual American. Hopefully you can see we are in basic agreement. Were we depart is in my my 'non-agitation' reading of 不動. I am getting that from a recent commentary on the Dao De Jing: A Philosophical Translation that I read.

http://www.amazon.com/Dao-Jing-Philos ... ation-Laozi/dp/0345444159

In this book the authors drawl attention to 動 and call it agitation. 動 is paired as the opposite of equilibrium - jing (can't remember the character sorry). Sort of a ying yang pairing. With the character 不 in front of 動 I got to non-agitation. I think this reading is very important - with regards to ShindenFudoRyu. The small amount of SFR movement and kata feeling I've been exposed to show a remarkable reliance on if not emphasis on a level headededness and coolness under-fire. SFR responses are immediate and devastating with no thought for prudent defense or retreat as in other ryu such as in Togakure, or Gyokko. These SFR moves are only possible from a position of utter imperturbability. The are not the moves of someone flustered or agitated into emotionally motivated responses. Pretty amazing stuff.

Please correct or refine my SFR characterizations anyone, and/or let me know if I'm barking up the right tree here.

In any case - the non-agitation translation I came to helped me come to an understanding that the standard 'immovable heart' translation didn't. I think this is because 'heart' doesn't have the such mental/spiritual connotations as used and understood in English, as it might in Asian cultures. 'Agitation' gets to the idea of a person who's mind is overwhelmed by emotional and environmental stimuli. Which is exactly what I believe the ShindenFudoRyu adept is able to overcome. Perhaps Ayam1 is right to point out - that you'd need an 'empty mind' to get to that level.

John Haverkamp

Posted on: 2007/3/12 2:52
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Re: Small thought on movement
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Update: here is the character for the Chinese - jìng that was paired with its supposed opposite 動.

靜 still; calm; quiet; not moving

my memory of the translation 'equilibrium' was incorrect.

靜 means not moving just as 不動 can mean not moving.

interesting...

John Haverkamp

Posted on: 2007/3/12 6:13
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Re: Small thought on movement
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Indeed.

What resources can you recommend for researching such things?

Thanks,

Ed

Posted on: 2007/3/12 6:21
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