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Re: Punching and stuff.
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Indeed, Papa-san!

Shizen with hands around chest height, near one's body --> Hiraichimonji...

Shizen with hands above shoulders, "ear height" --> Hôko no kamae...

Shizen with slight pivoting of body, slight weight shift, handspalm open towards threat --> Ichimonji / Seigan...

These might all appear normal victim-stances to the thratening party. Also, when the palms are open and towards the threat it might be considered a calming chesture; once one tenses the hands, either "ordinary" fist (Fudô-ken) or Shutô-like, the tensing most likely reaches one's demeanor in other bodyparts, too, thus tipping the threat about "the fight being on", the challenge of physical confrontation being accepted.

No more surprises.

I also remember a slogan "look weak, fight strong"?

Posted on: 2007/2/25 23:49
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Ari Julku
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Re: Punching and stuff.
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Exactly right Ari!!! No "kamae" should 'look' like one. The look weak, fight strong idea is what we want. Thank you sir!

Posted on: 2007/2/26 14:05
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Re: Punching and stuff.
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"I also remember a slogan "look weak, fight strong"?"

Well, in some cases this may be a good strategy. However, in my humble opinion, it is of utmost importance to break the antagonists fighting spirit, preferably even before the "fight" starts. The "look weak" approach can actually boost it and in such cases will not be of any help. I think it is also very difficult to master such an approach as the physical and mental states tend to mix together. This would mean that even if you put on a look of weakness and hiding your true potential/strength it may affect you negatively on the mental plane, perhaps even without you realizing it.

Best Regards / Richard M

Posted on: 2007/2/26 22:50
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Re: Punching and stuff.
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The kinky thing in self defence situations comes from the law... if we do too much, too soon, even, we might be considered the attacker, and end up as the bad guy. Like if the others around see some guy jaunting towards you, you see him as coming at ya with bad intention and drop him with a well placed punch (HAH! got into topic again! )...

Witness: "Yeah, this guy was saying something to the other guy, who then hit him in the face, dropping him cold, and he ended up hitting his head on the curb... yeah, there was a lot of blood, and the guy who hit just stood there in some kind of ninjastance...."

Though, carried by six or senteced by twelve, as I've a saying to go

Point... not to overreach, try to stop things, try to get way (if possible). Going physical is a last resort, hitting someone not very adult...

Though, the "look weak, fight strong" can be seen in another way, too; if we are spotted as weak to begin with we might be chosen as a potential victim... and, if we are seen strong to begin with we might be seen a s potential test subject...

So, vanish in the middle, yes? Naturally.

Posted on: 2007/2/27 3:09
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Re: Punching and stuff.
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The "look weak, fight strong" might be better put "look natural, fight strong". As others have said here, I am not sure it is a great idea to actually look weak. You just don't want to look like you are about to start something or to give away that you have skill. This is the same analogy with being a victim. You don't want to walk around slumped over looking at the ground. You look like a victim and may be victimized. Many people propose you should walk straight, head-up looking people in the eye. This is better, but can create problems on its own -- people notice you easily and you may be percived as a challenge to some. Better to be natural -- head up and such, but not threatening. It is a fine line, but once you can do it, it works pretty well.

Jeff

Posted on: 2007/2/27 3:49
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Re: Punching and stuff.
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There is a subtle difference between projecting confidence and just being confident. Projecting confidence, to me, is more likely to invoke a challenge (especially if used to hide fear). Just being confident is far more of a natural, unassuming position. It is less likely to invoke a challenge because you are almost in their 'blind spot' - you are neither victim or threat.

One is an action, the other is a condition.

It's hard to explain in words, but understand there really is a difference. I think it's the condition of being confident that is closer to "look natural, fight strong", or "speak softly but carry a big stick".

Ari is also exactly right about the court of public opinion when taking pre-emptive strike to stop a developing danger. You need to be able to prove your case to an average citizen (judge or jury) or you'll likely be dealing with jail/prison time and even worse civil lawsuits. You could be fighting off unwanted romance in a prison shower while your attacker sits in your house enjoying your hard earned assets.

To me, 'shizen' is something that should exist at all levels of danger, from conception to conclusion, from thoughts to body mechanics. In addition, 'shizen' as meaning 'natural', is at the root of being confident. So, this is a condition that should exist throughout the technique as well. Again, I credit Ari's post linking shizen to all our kamae. Great points!

Posted on: 2007/2/27 4:31
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Re: Punching and stuff.
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Quote:

Darren wrote:
There is a subtle difference between projecting confidence and just being confident. Projecting confidence, to me, is more likely to invoke a challenge (especially if used to hide fear). Just being confident is far more of a natural, unassuming position. It is less likely to invoke a challenge because you are almost in their 'blind spot' - you are neither victim or threat.

One is an action, the other is a condition.

It's hard to explain in words, but understand there really is a difference. I think it's the condition of being confident that is closer to "look natural, fight strong", or "speak softly but carry a big stick".



We are saying the same thing Darren -- you just said it better than I did.

Jeff

Posted on: 2007/2/27 10:39
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Re: Punching and stuff.
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OH I do like the way this thread has developed!!! Thank you all for also clarifying the "look weak" part too, as I agree the look natural or look non-threatening is a far more accurate portrayal of what is meant.
On the confidence thing, it is not something that can be faked! If you don't really feel it, that will be known. If it really is, deep down in your core, that too will be known and the response to these two will be dramatically different.

Posted on: 2007/2/27 11:07
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Re: Punching and stuff.
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so we have moved on from striking to a much more holistic view. reminds me that sun tzu suggested if we come to the point of fighting, we have already lost (the supreme commander will have overcome the enemy before the battle has begun).

for sometime I once lived in the seedy part of our city, where the pimps and junkies come out to play, and found that my inner confidence largely kept me from being embroiled in the hard playtime of all these freaks. as has been mentioned, I kept my head high, but without eyeballing everyone i passed, and not only did i get very little trouble from the troublemakers, but i also did not appear to be threatening to the more "normal" people on the street. so i felt like i was not only protecting myself, but also helping to make others feel a little more secure and so maybe in a small way helping to deconstruct the negative image of that end of town.

a man of god said to me on the weekend, that he hopes only to leave his children a slightly better world than was left to him - and although i am not inclined to his religious persuasions, i do believe that this attitude could serve many of us well ...

having said that if the situation warranted i would direct a strike to the nose hoping it would be effective in making my point clear, with much noise, pain and maybe blood ... can someone of more experience than i suggest a more effective strike point (note i do understand that choosing a point is often dictated by position/environment)

Posted on: 2007/2/27 12:06
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Re: Punching and stuff.
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It is not just "where" you strike, but a knowlege of how "hard" that strike in that specific location should be. If a "back handed" slapping movement is used with the fingers extending naturally, they can be dragged accross the eyes and that area of the face. This takes very little force and can be very quick while not perminently injuring the person (probably) and stopping their ability to see for a period of time. There are many other areas on the face and neck area but I won't talk of those in an open forum. What you do want to accomplish is to end this person's willingness and/or ability to be aggressive for that moment AND preferrably not do perminent damage unless that really is called for. Whatever you do should happen very quickly, be very hard to stop, and be a complete surprise. (IMO)

Posted on: 2007/2/27 23:52
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