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Re: Philosophy and fighting
Permanent Village Fixture
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Quote:

Duncan Mitchell wrote:
I think the philosophy of a particular budo or kakutogi is something that is grounded from the philosophy of the founder(s).


I think that this must be true. The physical movement is rooted in the core philosophy. The techniques are likely to have a base in anatomy and physics but the strategy will be based upon the philosophy.

I think one thing that I notice in the culture of the Bujinkan is the idea of training throughout life. The training is never done and there is no end goal, except to keep going. The overall message seems to be survival, and with that comes the 'keep going' message.

I think this shows up in the movement in a very real way. In the strategy of fighting in a martial art they generally have some goal that they're working toward that defines the movements they use. For example "position before submission" is a strategy outlined for grapplers of all kinds that emphasizes the most efficient way to win over one other person in a grappling match. The goal is to restrict the other persons movement to the point that you can have your way with them.

When you look at our movement by comparison, a central idea appears to be remaining unattached. The Unfettered Mind deals with attachments as a central part of the writings, stating that where ever the mind stops or gets caught up, that this is an attachment and a thing that will get you killed. I can see now why this book was recommended to me to read by several of my buyu. This is in line with that "keep going" attitude and strategy, and helped me a great deal to understand what it is that we do.

John Boyd wrote in his military strategy that the way to win was to procure "freedom for independent movement." If you add to this the idea that leaving the fight or avoiding it is also a victory scenario, then you start coming close to what I understand to be Bujinkan fighting philosophy.

It is this type of learning that excites me most about the Bujinkan. The direct simplicity of the strategy and the difficulty therein makes it something that SHOULD be studied for a lifetime, and there will always be more.

Posted on: 2007/5/8 5:04
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"The goal of opening the mind, as with opening the mouth, is to close it again on something solid."
Love and punches,
Nate Hallum
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Re: Philosophy and fighting
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Hi Duncan

Early in Musashi's warrior careerer at the age of 22 he was on the losing Western Army side at Battle of Sekigahara.

While he might not of lost personal duels, he too was faced with the reality of military defeat.

regards,
John Haverkamp

Posted on: 2007/5/8 5:28
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Re: Philosophy and fighting
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Quote:
It is this type of learning that excites me most about the Bujinkan. The direct simplicity of the strategy and the difficulty therein makes it something that SHOULD be studied for a lifetime, and there will always be more.


Well said Nate, in this I agree with you. I think this is what separates true Budoka from the false ones. It is not good enough to learn the secrets of the art and then stop; it's the continual refinement and improvement of what you know and the discovering just how far these principle or secrets go.

The Bujinkan philosophy (of movement or fighting) is clearly one of non-discrimination or non-attachment to a particular event, it is always about what comes next. This is at least the path to freedom or zero. This is also the first hurdle.
Rob

Posted on: 2007/5/8 9:42
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Re: Philosophy and fighting
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Thanks again to everyone who has chimed in. Quote:

Nate wrote:
Quote:
It is this type of learning that excites me most about the Bujinkan. The direct simplicity of the strategy and the difficulty therein makes it something that SHOULD be studied for a lifetime, and there will always be more.

I fully agree Nate. How's things anyway?

Quote:

Rob wrote:
The Bujinkan philosophy (of movement or fighting) is clearly one of non-discrimination or non-attachment to a particular event, it is always about what comes next.

(nodding head in agreement)

Quote:

Rob wrote:
...This is also the first hurdle.


Rob, I am curious as to what you mean by "the first hurdle".

Posted on: 2007/5/8 10:58
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Mike Hunt
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Re: Philosophy and fighting
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Quote:

Heretoday wrote:
I fully agree Nate. How's things anyway?


Going great!
:)

Posted on: 2007/5/8 11:24
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"The goal of opening the mind, as with opening the mouth, is to close it again on something solid."
Love and punches,
Nate Hallum
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Re: Philosophy and fighting
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What I mean about it being the first hurdle is, after it comes more. That non-attachment and non-reliance is only the beginning, the Godan test is a test of this, (my impression of it at least).

Posted on: 2007/5/8 15:14
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Re: Philosophy and fighting
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First hurdle... like the Shodan is; it's only a beginning, not the end....

Posted on: 2007/5/8 15:47
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Ari Julku
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Re: Philosophy and fighting
Permanent Village Fixture
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I was told one time that Soke has said: "If I will ever be killed it will likely be by a beautiful woman." This is a statement on attachments. He is significantly above godan in the ranking structure mind you.

Posted on: 2007/5/8 15:52
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"The goal of opening the mind, as with opening the mouth, is to close it again on something solid."
Love and punches,
Nate Hallum
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Re: Philosophy and fighting
Kutaki Postmaster
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Quote:
He is significantly above godan in the ranking structure mind you.

And this is why it is a continuing process, the Godan test is a test of if you can let go and not rely on anything (at least my take on it).

Posted on: 2007/5/8 17:35
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Re: Philosophy and fighting
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Quote:

magbhitu wrote:
Hi Duncan

Early in Musashi's warrior careerer at the age of 22 he was on the losing Western Army side at Battle of Sekigahara.

While he might not of lost personal duels, he too was faced with the reality of military defeat.

regards,
John Haverkamp


This is only speculation though, I haven't heard of any hard evidence to prove which side he fought on or even if he was really actually there.

Posted on: 2007/6/14 12:38
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