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Re: A nice account of wisdom
Village Old Timer
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The vender gives him the hotdog, and the Buddhist asks for his change. The vender says "you know change comes from within!"

Marty

Posted on: 2007/5/18 20:28
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Re: A nice account of wisdom
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What creates wisdom? Now that is a good question, and just maybe experience in Life is a factor as long as its lessons are properly understood and applied.


That is a good question?

Posted on: 2007/5/18 21:05
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Re: A nice account of wisdom
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Isn't it self evident that it is "a good question"? If we understand how wisdom is attained then at least we can work toward that end as long as we at least recognize the value of being "wise".

Posted on: 2007/5/18 21:19
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Ed Martin aka Papa-san
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Re: A nice account of wisdom
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Sorry Japanese key board with strange locations of keys, switching back and forth from my laptop and a desktop is problematic. I meant, that it indeed was a good question.!

Work on this kind of thing would be great.

Seriously, I mean it! It would be good applied philosophy and important for eduction no matter what one studies.

Posted on: 2007/5/18 22:34
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Re: A nice account of wisdom
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I have no clue what you mean by a limited perspective could you explain more, that might help.



The story was supposed to highlight the fact that wisdom could potentially be illusory due to the impact of perspective (results based on uncontrolled factors in a given problem solving situation). In other words the point at which you judge the wisdom of another person at another point in time/space. I was among other terrible crimes trying to combine some martial arts discussion into this philosophy forum (oops now I treaded into quantum physics). Our perception of wisdom may be limited by our own level of wisdom but you can go further than that.

Basically I might have been heading in this direction: wisdom is illusory except in one case. In the case of an all knowing being, who knows all that was and all that will be. This person is not only wise but knows what it is to be wise, and can recognise when someone is 'being' wise at any point in time. Anyone else is just guessing based on their own perspective limitations. They may be 'wiser' at guessing how 'wise' someone else is but ultimately still guessing. Feel free to poo all over my philosophy by the way I know you are much wiser than me. Or atleast you think you are, in my wise opinion...

Come to mention it, not only is wisdom speculative, illusory and unmeasurable, it is also momentary. Perhaps the 'Oracle' was a complete idiot who 'hosted' wiseness for a moment. Perhaps those politicians were wise enough to hide their wisdom lest they also be given hemlock. It all depends what you believe. Now you have my right hemisphere funtioning for a change. Thanks for that. I wish I had more music, art and philosophy in my life when I was younger.

Posted on: 2007/5/19 1:03
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Re: A nice account of wisdom
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The oasis story has several layers and meaning. The first is of course is the omote. It is what it appears, a story of a man who in his haste to escape one danger/discomfort leaps blindly into a pool too shallow and suffers as a result.
Another layer: Its not a story about an oasis at all, but story about a relationship gone awry. The man turned to a beautiful woman to relieve himself from the desert of loneliness, only to find out she had no depth of character. Beauty was only skin deep so to speak, and again it led to injury and pain.
How about an interpretation as related to martial studies?
The one about wisdom/illusion is good as well..
No, no hotdog eating buddha's here.

Posted on: 2007/5/19 15:23
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Re: A nice account of wisdom
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I see your point, but I disagree with one thing. You are talking about subjective perspectives. You don`t quite need a God-like figure, all you need is an objective account, but for an individual to know outside an objective account is the problem that you seem to address. And, that problem is not only a problem for wisdom .

Posted on: 2007/5/19 22:09
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Re: A nice account of wisdom
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DontPost wrote:
Come to mention it, not only is wisdom speculative, illusory and unmeasurable, it is also momentary. Perhaps the 'Oracle' was a complete idiot who 'hosted' wiseness for a moment.


I have to disagree here. Wisdom is not momentary. Wisdom comes from insight into that which is not momentary, into that which is beyond time and space, beyond form and beyond formlessness. If it is momentary then it is not wisdom!

What you seem to be describing is wisdom as perceived by an outsider, hence its ability to come and go and to be feigned for a moment. All this points to a transitory nature which would be the nature of the mind caught perceiving wisdom with an incorrect view of reality ... thus things appear transitory to this mind, and bound by time and space. Hence all that is viewed by this mind becomes imbued with its incorrect view of life. Thus wisdom and ones understanding of it becomes viewed/understood as such because it has nothing else to base its understanding on. Wisdom is quite literally beyond the realms of comprehension to this persons perception in their current mindset. Truly, how can one understand and perceive something that is beyond ones current capabilities? Its like trying to understand and describe what its like for a bird to fly when your a mouse who's never been off the ground. Your understanding of life and the laws that bind you are different.

To a wise person though wisdom is nothing more than their current experience, its nothing special. Its like asking you, what do you call your current experience? Well you don't call it anything, its just how you view the world. Its your experience of "being". A wise person is no different in this regard and thus don't label their experience as wise, its just their state of "being". Its just that their state of being is not bound by the same laws as someone who hasn't had the same insight. To someone external to them though they'll appear "wise" due to their nature, their way of being, how they are unaffected by the same things that trouble someone else. They aren't bound by space and time, forms and the comings and goings of things. This is because their mindset is viewing the world differently and understands a different set of laws. This view of life is manifested in the way they then carry themselves, respond to events and behave. Put simply, Wisdom is an embodiment of insight that is manifested in action, thus as a way of "being".

Anyway, hope that helps.

Posted on: 2007/5/20 14:38
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Re: A nice account of wisdom
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Your story on the "pool of water" is interesting. For one thing the man only valued comfort not survival. This was the desert, and the water available would keep people and animals alive, yet he was willing to polute it just for his comfort. What does that say about ANY consideration for other life? Next he was a fool for comfort for he didn't even consider the possible results of his actions! In this case all he saw was cool water and not the danger of precipitous action which then got him killed. Maybe like one really should look a little deeper then just the surface? When we are unwilling to consider the well being of others do we even understand how negatively that will rebound on us? Our "life style" is only possible because "other" people work in cooperation. That is a very important aspect of our lives and very foolish to ignore. (IMO)

Posted on: 2007/5/20 22:50
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Re: A nice account of wisdom
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Quote:

hiddenlion wrote:
The oasis story has several layers and meaning. The first is of course is the omote. It is what it appears, a story of a man who in his haste to escape one danger/discomfort leaps blindly into a pool too shallow and suffers as a result.
Another layer: Its not a story about an oasis at all, but story about a relationship gone awry. The man turned to a beautiful woman to relieve himself from the desert of loneliness, only to find out she had no depth of character. Beauty was only skin deep so to speak, and again it led to injury and pain.
How about an interpretation as related to martial studies?
The one about wisdom/illusion is good as well..
No, no hotdog eating buddha's here.


Quote:

Your story on the "pool of water" is interesting. For one thing the man only valued comfort not survival. This was the desert, and the water available would keep people and animals alive, yet he was willing to polute it just for his comfort. What does that say about ANY consideration for other life? Next he was a fool for comfort for he didn't even consider the possible results of his actions! In this case all he saw was cool water and not the danger of precipitous action which then got him killed. Maybe like one really should look a little deeper then just the surface? When we are unwilling to consider the well being of others do we even understand how negatively that will rebound on us? Our "life style" is only possible because "other" people work in cooperation. That is a very important aspect of our lives and very foolish to ignore. (IMO)


I give up, I have no idea where you guys are coming up with stuff.

Ed seems to be able to peer into a fictious mans mind and can tell what he values beyond what is given by the story. Plus, apparently it was "clean" water before he died in it, I didn't realized he checked first.

And apparently the oasis story is about a bad relationship. I can kind of follow you but I don't even see the relationship between the two. I understand your point but not the way you made it or arrived at it, the same for Ed's post.

I don't even know where to begin... But, I am confused how a simple story has lead to you pulling all this "stuff" out.

I am not saying you both haven't made good points, I just don't think the oasis story has all this extra stuff in it.

I think this might be a case of reading to much into a story, or a type of projection of what one was thinking about at the time, and doesn't have anything to do with the story at all.

So maybe some justification for you posts would be warranted.

One quick question though: Ed who's life style are you talking about.

And one quick comment, You both talk about looking deeper; but, if you didn't like the answers would you believe it, instead of what you want or wanted to believe?

Posted on: 2007/5/21 14:04
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