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Re: Kuki swordwork
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There is much there Glenn that doesn't get talked about often, and what you are finding is correct. (IMO) Another area that rarely even gets mentioned is "why" a person would take a specific kamae. Why would you go to chudan and touch sword tips with your opponent? Well one reason would be because you felt you could 'take' him and so by putting your sword there you give him a direct challenge. If you went to jodan it may be because there were multiple attackers and you couldn't afford to have your sword entangled even for an instant as the others would kill you. It could also mean you didn't want to directly challenge him as you are not so sure that you can "take" him. Each kamae has it's own "tacticle" aspects.

Posted on: 2007/10/2 1:57
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Re: Kuki swordwork
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Quote:

Toruko-jin wrote:
I have noticed that there are at least three kinds of Ma-ai usage in Bujinkan schools. First one is for regular kenjutsu (one step or two step cut) second one is for getting engaged for close fight, to use Taijutsu and cut with body using a lock or throw. Third one is distant to use shuriken, metsubishi etc.


Well, I was talking about "simple swordplay" only....

Quote:

Toruko-jin wrote:
Maybe in the begining of training you can choose one condition like''today we will try battle field spirit'' or ''we are in town so not much room around''. This way you can get the ability to adapt any situation (like we live in 16 th century )


Very good thing to do - IMHO it's quite important to see the setting, why things are the way they are as they are practised... If either party is at loss about the situation, it might not "work right", right?

This might have great effect on the Ma-ai, indeed!

Posted on: 2007/10/2 3:29
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Ari Julku
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Re: Kuki swordwork
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Quote:

Ôari wrote:
Very good thing to do - IMHO it's quite important to see the setting, why things are the way they are as they are practised..."


I just remembered the scene from Pirates of the Carribean 3, where Captain Sparrow and ?Davy Jones? are fighting on top of a ship's sail........very cool......reminds me of the European(Italian and French mainly) fencing methodologies.

I've found the best way to practice combative deviations from dojo normality(armor, limited space, handicaps, etc.) is to actually do them. Just "thinking" that you are wearing armor, and "imagining the feeling" would be very difficult to do effectively, without having ALREADY trained with armor for a LONG time.....in my opinion.


This brings me to another idea......how would one use Japanese sword methodologies(japanese buki + Kenjutsu) against modern European sword methods(european civilian arms + fencing)?

before you reply, it'd be nice if you stated whether or not you've actually tried it in real time against a resisting opponent.

yes, I have tried it. DIFFICULT, but POSSIBLE.


p.s. I'm talking strictly about kenjutsu(no other tactics: blinding powder,"not being there", friends helping you, etc.)

p.p.s. I should probably start another thread, shouldn't I?

Mod.edit (Ôari): quotation fixed

Posted on: 2007/10/2 4:33
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Re: Kuki swordwork
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i meant the kukishin swordwork i know is from Sabaki no gata most of the kukishinden i have learned is jo and bo-jutsu and sojutsu vs sword

Posted on: 2007/10/2 11:58
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Re: Kuki swordwork
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Quote:
Ari Julku wrote: Maybe there's more fluid Ma-ai at work there, between the counterparts?


Sure, please, don't think I was saying one shouldn't use longer maai. Some people are skilled enough to use such great distances and cross them almost effortlessly. The thing I object to most is when people define things as "we do it this way..." as opposed to "they do it that way..", when they don't understand much about how "we" do it or "they" do it. Bumper sticker training...

Papa-san, yes I am learning that kamae encompass so much, and yet we should be careful not to let them trap us. We did a drill during my iai teacher's class that taught us how much we get trapped by our kihon. It was so pertinent to my Bujinkan training. I am fortunate to have teachers who really do care about sharing what is "real".

Posted on: 2007/10/2 14:19
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What? Yes...that's how I do that....why...why do you ask?
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Re: Kuki swordwork
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Kenpo/jutsu/heiho/hyoho,whatever it's called/wherever it's taught by teachers with some understanding, is usually taught at beginning levels with might seem like very little tolerance for variation. This applies to all aspects of kamae and sabaki. Proper foot placement before and after movement is so critical because the margins between life and death are so close. For me, this kind of training is necessary to develop enough feel for further study.

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like this discussion is an attempt by some participants to describe Kukishin kenpo by consensus. I think there is a real disparity in the weapons training within the Bujinkan outside of Japan and most of what passes for real is actually either entirely speculative or correct but misunderstood. I'd be curious to know what people make of this observation. Maybe Harada sensei would like to weigh in on this one?

Posted on: 2007/10/3 5:42
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Re: Kuki swordwork
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I've done armored fighting for many years,even before I started in the bujinkan, although age and surgeries have taken away that pastime
I've also done medieval style fighting against both a (good) kenjutsuka and a kendoka who competes nationally. Depending on the type of weapon there is little difference with the exception of weapon and shield. There is usually a lot of iaiuchi, but most traditional Japanese weapons stylist have one hell of a time trying to deal with a shield man of any competence. Yari and lance have very few meaningful differences, and single sabre against katana is a wash. It did get interesting with a foil or rapier vs katana, as both are speed dependent, but one is a thuster the other a slasher, but both with secondary capability of the other weapon.
I think that European medieval weapons styles have been give short shrift and that the practice of this kind of armored fighting has a lot of training potential for Japanese weapons stylists. If nothing else it is one heck of a lot of fun.
Your mileage may vary.
Wild Bill

Posted on: 2007/12/17 1:50
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