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Re: 9 ryu question
Village Old Timer
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Dear Musasabi,
I usually accept soke's books for the source and try to read them with heart, that is why my Ninja understanding may be that way. I also wonder about your sources and their reliabelty. I can see that you read a lot and have a lot of knowledge.

I also wonder if there is a clan, organization or a nation that has no leaders? (except the Aborjins)so it is not too hard to think of a Jonin. You really do not have to find it in a scroll. Just think aobut it, you will come to the same point.

About Shinobi life style, please read Hatsumi Sensei's various books, I think he is a very good source as his knowledge comes mostly from Takamatsu sensei. Essence of Ninjutsu once more!

If there is no distinction between Ninja and Samurai, why do people say that they come from a Ninja family or Samurai family or both?

I agree with you with the name ''NINJA'' as they might be called with many different names in the history.
Sorry I can not make a long essay here as this is a forum but try to read Soke's books with your heart and think about those days, you may get the idea or maybe I got the wrong idea I am ready to accept reality with an open heart.

Posted on: 2007/12/15 15:17
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Re: 9 ryu question
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Quote:

Toruko-jin wrote:
If there is no distinction between Ninja and Samurai, why do people say that they come from a Ninja family or Samurai family or both?


Sorry, but who says that? The people themselves who come from those families...?

PS.

"Samurai by day, Ninja by night"
Hatsumi Masaaki Sôke

Posted on: 2007/12/15 20:01
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Ari Julku
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Re: 9 ryu question
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Quote:

Ôari wrote:
Quote:

Toruko-jin wrote:
For the question of Ôari I suggest you to read ''ESSENCE OF NINJUTSU'' by Dr.Masaaki Hatsumi , especially the interview with Takamatsu Sensei (pages 17-23 ). He will be closer to the reality than me so I hope it will help. Page 23 will be the best shot for you.


Thanks, I'll read it asap.


Finally got around to it. Here are some points that caught my eye:

"I [Takamatsu-sensei] was taught ninjutsu by my uncle, who used to belong to the samurai class in Iga Province."

"...one might judge that all the members of the clan had training in ninjutsu, but I hear that there were only a small number of the inhabitants [of Takao] who practised it."

"There were very few ninjas in the true sense of the word."

On page 23 the "enlightment on the laws of humanity" is discussed. This reminded me something I've heard conserning Togakure-ryû and it's fighting ideology. It will be interesting to see how the next year's theme plays out.

Thanks for the clue, Toruko-jin!

Posted on: 2007/12/15 20:36
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Re: 9 ryu question
Village Old Timer
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No problem, I just wanted to share a nice conversation with Takamatsu Sensei.
Thank you for the Soke's sentence but maybe he said it because they needed to conceal them selves. Some were farmers during day and Ninja at night (maybe)
I am also very excited about this year's theme, good luck hehehe.

Posted on: 2007/12/16 0:27
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Re: 9 ryu question
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Quote:

Toruko-jin wrote:
Thank you for the Soke's sentence but maybe he said it because they needed to conceal them selves. Some were farmers during day and Ninja at night (maybe)


This reminded me about a bit of history I heard about the Taura Musô-ryû; they were in connection to one Ninja-school (sorry, can't recall the school's name), and they acted as border patrol posing as farmers.

Posted on: 2007/12/16 3:37
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Re: 9 ryu question
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I wonder if we today are trying to lump together many distinct classes or groups that were different in different time periods. After all, if you read Takematsu sensei's biography, it mentions several times how much upheaval and change there was during his lifetime alone. I am sure that the exact definition of a "ninja", their job description and who was actually one of their number varied considerable over the historical period we are lumping into one definition.
For example, every daimyo was obliged to keep and maintain a system of spies and informers who fed information to him that was essential to his survival and that of his family. I think that in many cases these same spies and informers sold information to more than one master, too.
Would all of them be considered "ninja"? How about the youngest sons of various lords, who were often placed in religious orders and who acted as very effective spies in that capacity?
I've read that the majority of persons we today would consider ninja were actually samurai doing specific assignments, not a member of a "ninja clan" dedicating their lives to a secret ninpo ryuha. Intuitively, this makes sense to me, and I think that in most cases, what we call a ninja today is actually a construct of persona from several different places and time periods.
A good example of this is the Roman Catholic ex-saint Christopher. Supposedly this saint turned out to be a construct of the lives of several different holy men and monks, not a specific individual.
Your thoughts?
Wild Bill

Posted on: 2007/12/17 1:23
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Re: 9 ryu question
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Found this somewhere.. Sorry if I dont know what im talking about..
Togakure Ryu 
Hidden Door
Ninjutsu

Gyokko Ryu
Pearl Tiger
Koshijutsu

Kukishinden Ryu
Nine Demons Divine Transmission
Dakentaijutsu

Shinden Fudo Ryu 
Divine Transmission of Immovability
Hikenjutsu

Gyokushin Ryu
Pearl Heart
Ninjutsu

Koto Ryu
Tiger Knockdown
Koppojutsu

Takagi Yoshin Ryu
Tall Tree Willow Heart
Jutaijutsu

Gikan Ryu
Clear Truth & Justice
Koppojutsu

Kumogakure Ryu
Hidden Cloud
Ninjutsu

Posted on: 2014/4/12 10:45
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