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Re: Hehehe...
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JamesGarcia wrote:
Interesting thread drift...

Of course, I don't agree with you Mr. Jeff, but I think we have argued this over the years as I have been one of the largest supporters for the Ten-Chi-Jin Ryaku no Maki as the standard Bujinkan Curriculum, because that was how it was presented to me.Godai Curriculum were following the TCJRNM in the 80's, including the Japanese and especially those in Europe. You see it's influence amongst the Shi-Tenno...


Yeah, I know I am in the minority when it comes to not paying much attention to the TCJ.

Quote:
This was the book that the Japanese Shihan would refer to when asked to teach something and still do to this day...


Not the Japanese I train with...

Quote:
But to each his own... There are a number that do not give importance to the TCJRNM... But as I previously stated, I do because that was how I was taught.


That's understandable... I have the opposite experience though through speaking with Soke and people close to him about the subject.

Just curious... why do you think he stopped selling copies of the TCJ so many years ago then?

Oh and in regards to:

Quote:
This has always made me suspect that the wording in the TCJRNM may be from the original Densho'.


I have done side by side comparisons of the original TCJ and some of the tai densho for some of the kata/ryu out of curiosity and they definitely did match. Who knows if they all do though...

Posted on: 2008/1/17 1:07
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Re: Ten Chi Jin Ryaku no maki (Was: Haho Keri)
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When I was in Japan last year, I heard that sensei planned to publish a new book this year that was to be something like his Bujinkan densho for us, also, that he did not like the TenChiJin anymore. Does anyone know anything about the new book?
-steve

Posted on: 2008/1/17 1:44
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Hehehe...
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I have no idea why he no longer makes it available, but since you have discussed it with him directly, why don't you let us know... hehe...

Just an observation, but when he stopped making it available, there were only 2-videos available from him (The Ninja Art of Grandmaster Masaaki Hatsumi series), he had just started the now large compilation of the Quest series, and Taikai's were his new way of allowing more people to train with him and not from books or magazines.

I have always stated that I believe the TCJRNM serves as what we used to call, 'The Greatest Hits' of the different styles... To give a beginner and new black belt an overview of what you may or may not see at one of Sensei's classes. As I mentioned in the Uke Kihon thread, just the difference in feeling between the differing Uke's between the Gedan-Uke of Koto'-Ryu', KeriKaeshi of Gyokko-Ryu' and the differing Ukemi in Kukishin-den makes it difficult for a newer student to keep up... The Ten-Chi-Jin makes these things available for study.

I have always thought that it was no coincidence the way it is structured... Very general basic Kata and Taihen in the 1st-Ten section... More specific Kata in the 2nd-Chi section, and specific Ryu'ha-Gata in the 3rd-Jin section... The ending being the first Kata involving opponent's behind you in the Togakure-Ryu' section of the Santo' Tonko' no Kata as well as the placement of the Sakki-Godan test in the 'Togakure-Ryu' Ninpo'-Taijutsu' book. In my opinion, this makes the Ten-Chi-Jin important for the student up to Godan, after that, a more in depth study of the individual Ryu' under Hatsumi Sensei.

If Sensei makes a organizational-wide change in a more definite curriculum, I will follow his teaching.

Posted on: 2008/1/17 1:53
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Re: Ten Chi Jin Ryaku no maki (Was: Haho Keri)
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Quote:

sschmidt wrote:
When I was in Japan last year, I heard that sensei planned to publish a new book this year that was to be something like his Bujinkan densho for us, also, that he did not like the TenChiJin anymore. Does anyone know anything about the new book?


Unarmed Fighting Techniques of the Samurai

Posted on: 2008/1/17 2:27
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Re: Hehehe...
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Quote:

JeffMueller wrote:
Quote:

JamesGarcia wrote:
This was the book that the Japanese Shihan would refer to when asked to teach something and still do to this day...


Not the Japanese I train with...


I'd tend to agree with this, as the Shihans seem to have a different book for each school.

Quote:

JeffMueller continued:
I have done side by side comparisons of the original TCJ and some of the tai densho for some of the kata/ryu out of curiosity and they definitely did match. Who knows if they all do though...


That's nice to know, thanks. Though, considering the Waza in TCJRnM....

Quote:

JamesGarcia added:
Just an observation, but when he stopped making it available, there were only 2-videos available from him (The Ninja Art of Grandmaster Masaaki Hatsumi series),


As a side note, it was "re-released" in the 90's, briefly, a limited edition, so to speak.

Posted on: 2008/1/17 2:34
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Re: Hehehe...
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JamesGarcia wrote:

I have no idea why he no longer makes it available, but since you have discussed it with him directly, why don't you let us know... hehe...


Should the situation arise where the topic is being discussed I will happily ask the question. At the time the conversation was happening though that did not come up.

Posted on: 2008/1/17 5:07
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Re: Hehehe...
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I believe the Ten Chi Jin Ryakku no Maki was a document for it's time.

Posted on: 2008/1/17 8:09
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Hehehe...
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JeffMueller wrote:

That's understandable... I have the opposite experience though through speaking with Soke and people close to him about the subject.



Ahhh... That statement made me think you had already discussed it.

As for Japanese that use it, it is my experience that some do use it though. Having different books for each Ryu' is the same as we all do, instructors that is. It would not make much sense to train in the Ten-Chi-Jin-RNM if we were studying a particular school as a theme. Although there are some of us that train the TCJ for Kyu' belt requirements while still training the years theme for the advanced.

Unless Sensei names the Taijutsu of another school to be studied alongside Togakure-Ryu' this year, like he did last year with Gyokko-Ryu', I have a feeling we will be exposed to the Jin-RNM as he did in 2003 for Juppo' Sessho', and the last time we studied Togakure-Ryu' Ninpo'-Taijutsu in the early 90's.

Posted on: 2008/1/17 8:33
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Re: Hehehe...
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JamesGarcia wrote:

Ahhh... That statement made me think you had already discussed it.


We did, just in more general terms.

What I relayed in my first post is pretty much what he said to us. That the TCJ was something that people asked him to write to assist them and that it was not meant to be anything more than a teaching aid at that time for a few people.

Definitely not the bible people make it out to be for people to use as a study/rank aid.

Don't get me wrong though, I think it is a good reference for those who need some sort of structure.

Posted on: 2008/1/17 9:11
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Re: Hehehe...
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JamesGarcia wrote:
Unless Sensei names the Taijutsu of another school to be studied alongside Togakure-Ryu' this year, like he did last year with Gyokko-Ryu', I have a feeling we will be exposed to the Jin-RNM as he did in 2003 for Juppo' Sessho', and the last time we studied Togakure-Ryu' Ninpo'-Taijutsu in the early 90's.


I seem to recall Kukishinden has been mnetioned as the "alongside school"... was it in the blog Henka... Yes, there it was:

Quote:
This year we will study the concepts of Togakure Ryu and the mindset associated with Ninjutsu. Soke also mentioned that Kukishin will also continue to some degree.

(http://henka.wordpress.com/)

Posted on: 2008/1/17 17:03
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