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Re: Truths of our Art
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I don't have to like something for my body to do it. Conditioning does suck, I don't know a single person who does like it.

<snip>

If conditioning were fun then everyone would do it, as that is not the case you have to force yourself to do it.


I'm going to the gym 5 days/week. I started with free weights and push-ups the first week, added machines the next and this week I'm adding exercise bike. And I'm having a blast. :)

Before this I wasn't working out at all (training doesn't count to me) and I'm amazed at how fun it is to blast myself to muscle failure. Am I disciplined? Dunno. Is it discipline when I am really enjoying it?

Some people actually DO enjoy conditioning. Just never thought I'd be one of them. :)

Junjie
Singapore

P.S. does that mean I am not making myself mentally tougher? Nevermind, I'll work that in somehow...

Posted on: 2008/3/26 13:36
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Re: Truths of our Art
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Kasumi wrote:
I knew a police officer who had been in a dangerous posting in which he had a street fight almost every day including gun battles. The fact is he was very out of condition and drank and smoked. I also met on a couple of occasions a man by the name of Mark who was the most dangerous person I ever met. I had a bad feeling from him straight away. He was involved in many gangland killings and acts of violence. He was short and skinny and chain smoked. He also would have had very little in skillful techniques but I suppose his advantage was that he would go to extremes quicker than his opposition.



This harks back to the discussion about the "it", can the 'it' be taught, and what if a student doesn't have 'it'.

The question seems to be how to get the 'it' without emotionally scarring yourself and making yourself a psychopath. I believe that physical conditioning helps because part of 'it' seems to be the ability to take pain and keep going, and to do what we'd rather not do. Both of these are part of conditioning (especially running).

Thanks for reminding me about the 'it' factor. :)

Junjie
Singapore

Posted on: 2008/3/26 13:52
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Re: Truths of our Art
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Darren wrote:
The goal here is not to build muscle fighters, but to build muscle endurance. In addition, I have found that the taijutsu improves when the muscles are taxed. ALso, the students enjoy the workout and their attitudes reflect in their training.



I once met an American shidoshi who trained in Japan. Because he believed that taijutsu meant not using muscle strength, he'd go to the gym before class and blast his muscles to exhaustion. Then he'd go for his lessons. Boy was he well-built!

All these discussions on conditioning brought this to mind...

Junjie
Singapore

Posted on: 2008/3/26 14:02
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Re: Truths of our Art
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shunketsu wrote:
I once met an American shidoshi who trained in Japan. Because he believed that taijutsu meant not using muscle strength, he'd go to the gym before class and blast his muscles to exhaustion. Then he'd go for his lessons. Boy was he well-built!

All these discussions on conditioning brought this to mind...

Junjie
Singapore


That's one of the things I greatly admire about Russian Systema: they tend to go through a lot of really exhausting drills both before training and on "breaks" during training, leaving it impossible for them to "muscle things through" and forcing them to move in naturally efficient ways.

The other nice thing about their approach is that they don't just do this for the sake of tiring you out, rather the drills support the fundamental movement of their art. . .and said movement happens to be consistent in many ways with our own taijutsu.

As a former "Cold Warrior" I don't yet fully trust these Russkies. But I'll admit to respecting and admiring them.

Posted on: 2008/3/26 16:40
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Dale Seago
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Re: Truths of our Art
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shunketsu wrote:
I once met an American shidoshi who trained in Japan. Because he believed that taijutsu meant not using muscle strength...


WOW!!! How was he able to stand on his feet to begin with, not to mention take steps....

Posted on: 2008/3/26 20:35
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Re: Truths of our Art
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Quote:

shunketsu wrote:
Quote:


I don't have to like something for my body to do it. Conditioning does suck, I don't know a single person who does like it.

<snip>

If conditioning were fun then everyone would do it, as that is not the case you have to force yourself to do it.


I'm going to the gym 5 days/week. I started with free weights and push-ups the first week, added machines the next and this week I'm adding exercise bike. And I'm having a blast. :)

Before this I wasn't working out at all (training doesn't count to me) and I'm amazed at how fun it is to blast myself to muscle failure. Am I disciplined? Dunno. Is it discipline when I am really enjoying it?

Some people actually DO enjoy conditioning. Just never thought I'd be one of them. :)

Junjie
Singapore

P.S. does that mean I am not making myself mentally tougher? Nevermind, I'll work that in somehow...


I don't consider free weights and push ups to be conditioning. Most people like going to the gym, it's pretty, fun, plays homo-erotic music and has eye candy...

You do certain exercises for strength, certain ones for flexibility, certain ones for explosive power, certain ones or rep ranges for hypertrophy or muscular endurance.

The conditioning aspect comes in where you are pushing your body to be able to withstand whatever the rigors are of your sport or activity. In our case I train in a similar mindset of the MMA and boxing guys as they are the closest I can find to us who actually have a comprehensive conditioning methodology.

What I'm interested in is being able to do fighting movement for an extended period of time under stressful circumstances. Sport fighters have adapted sport training to increase their endurance to insane levels.

If you want to see people trying to force and muscle crap, in my experience it's usually people who are tired and unable to focus so they go back to what the body does naturally which is muscle it up. I've seen it hundreds of times when I did Aikido and hundreds more in BBT.

Posted on: 2008/3/26 22:49
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Re: Truths of our Art
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I haven't read the whole thread, but when I arrived in Japan last year, I went straight from Narita to Ayase for training and heard many positive comments about my movement. I attributed it to MUSH-mINd brought on by many hours of travel and lack of sleep. Seems like the same kind of thing.

Posted on: 2008/3/27 1:31
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Re: Truths of our Art
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Good morning.
I can usually identify someone who came straight to training from Narita:
1)bad hair
2)the odor of digesting airline food
3)crazy eyes
4)rolling suitcase

Should I add awesome taijutsu to my list?

I wonder why anyone would choose to lift weights when they could be practicing and refining their form with actual techniques and kata (seishin tanren)?

You can learn a lot by making hundreds of consecutive cuts/tsuki/keri/etc. that you can't learn by hoisting dumbells. To the best of my knowledge anyway.

Proper high repetition training reduces tension by creating proper alignment and balance which is often entirely different from the physiological state of musculo-skeletal exhaustion.

(Hey Dale! Let's get you up to Davis soon!)

Posted on: 2008/3/27 2:56
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Re: Truths of our Art
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petelohstroh wrote:
(Hey Dale! Let's get you up to Davis soon!)


Soon as I get the job situation straightened out and am no longer doing this insane Friday/Saturday night thing. Interviewing Friday morning for a security management position in San Francisco -- keep your fingers crossed for me!

Posted on: 2008/3/27 3:22
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Dale Seago
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Re: Truths of our Art
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I wonder why anyone would choose to lift weights when they could be practicing and refining their form with actual techniques and kata (seishin tanren)?

You can learn a lot by making hundreds of consecutive cuts/tsuki/keri/etc. that you can't learn by hoisting dumbells. To the best of my knowledge anyway.

Proper high repetition training reduces tension by creating proper alignment and balance which is often entirely different from the physiological state of musculo-skeletal exhaustion.

(Hey Dale! Let's get you up to Davis soon!)


Because lifting weights properly increases strength, muscular endurance, helps protect joints, helps teach one to use power through full body movements (olympic lifts) and give the foundation for activity specific training.

One should practice techniques and kata, but strength and conditioning are a fundamental that comes BEFORE those things.

Posted on: 2008/3/27 9:52
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