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Re: what are you training?
Active Kutakian
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From Memphis, TN - USA
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Quote:
In the city I live in the video would have played differently, it would have been the officer unloading a clip in the guy for looking at him funny...I am only slightly exaggerating. Not to mention that our police officers do not approach a subject w/o backup.

If you caught any of the other "reality fighting" on that montage of decaffinated crappuccino then you'd know what stuck out as looking very much like the crap that perhaps many of us did in our younger years...

Not many teenage police officers back then...or now.

Not all cities are like that. We usually ride one-man units and I often have to give chase on my own because backup is not always standing right next to me. If I don't, the bad guy gets away. Backup is coming, but it is often 3-5 minutes away. I don't have the benefit of ASP batons or TASERs. If something like that happened to me I'd probably try for the shoot or knife if it was a good strategy, and at that distance the knife is the better of the two.

Sure, a lot of it looks like crap we did in our younger years... but for the most part, it works. It's how most people you are going to encounter fight. There are no tsuki on the street, no formal kumiuchi, etc. You should be familiar with how most people are going to fight you.

Most Bujinkan schools I've seen do not teach how to defend against how most people fight. To me, that is a problem, but it is not something "wrong" with Bujinkan taijutsu. I believe that it is a problem with the instructors.

Posted on: 2008/4/8 16:12
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Re: what are you training?
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Quote:

TheTengu wrote:

Sure, a lot of it looks like crap we did in our younger years... but for the most part, it works. It's how most people you are going to encounter fight. There are no tsuki on the street, no formal kumiuchi, etc. You should be familiar with how most people are going to fight you.

Most Bujinkan schools I've seen do not teach how to defend against how most people fight. To me, that is a problem, but it is not something "wrong" with Bujinkan taijutsu. I believe that it is a problem with the instructors.


Yes, on the street you can not see clear punches,kicks and etc. It is funny that sometimes these funny punches land with full accuracy and power hehehehe..Yes we must train that way etiher, nice point.

Posted on: 2008/4/8 16:26
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Re: what are you training?
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2003/5/8 12:29
From Springfield, OR
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I am not trying to make light of that one scene, I also (thank God) don't believe my city should be considered the standard of the nation's law enforcement.

That officer was caught in a very horrible situation, no denying that.

This video too me, is not conclusive in proving the Bujinkan arts as a scam or a vehicle for a false sense of security. Were the victims in the reality fights members of the Bujinkan? Not likely, in fact I have yet to see a video on youtube or anywhere where a Bujinkan practitioner has been beat up unconsentually(uke). And given that it is entirely possible that people in the Bujinkan are as mortal as both the losers and the winners of these reality fights, is that not more purely a testament of that person's actions and willpower and not something quite as sophisticated as the art the train in?

How do you make the conclusion that its the art that needs an overhaul and not the cult of personality who sells diluted budo? Who is truly accountable for losing a fight to another person? I have to believe its the person and not their martial tradition.

Posted on: 2008/4/8 16:53
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Re: what are you training?
Village Old Timer
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Quote:

Kikbaq wrote:

Who is truly accountable for losing a fight to another person? I have to believe its the person and not their martial tradition.


I agree 100%

Posted on: 2008/4/8 19:26
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Re: what are you training?
Deleted_
Quote:

TheTengu wrote:
Quote:
In the city I live in the video would have played differently, it would have been the officer unloading a clip in the guy for looking at him funny...I am only slightly exaggerating. Not to mention that our police officers do not approach a subject w/o backup.

If you caught any of the other "reality fighting" on that montage of decaffinated crappuccino then you'd know what stuck out as looking very much like the crap that perhaps many of us did in our younger years...

Not many teenage police officers back then...or now.

Not all cities are like that. We usually ride one-man units and I often have to give chase on my own because backup is not always standing right next to me. If I don't, the bad guy gets away. Backup is coming, but it is often 3-5 minutes away. I don't have the benefit of ASP batons or TASERs. If something like that happened to me I'd probably try for the shoot or knife if it was a good strategy, and at that distance the knife is the better of the two.

Sure, a lot of it looks like crap we did in our younger years... but for the most part, it works. It's how most people you are going to encounter fight. There are no tsuki on the street, no formal kumiuchi, etc. You should be familiar with how most people are going to fight you.

Most Bujinkan schools I've seen do not teach how to defend against how most people fight. To me, that is a problem, but it is not something "wrong" with Bujinkan taijutsu. I believe that it is a problem with the instructors.


Amen my brother

Posted on: 2008/4/8 22:07
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Re: what are you training?
Village Old Timer
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W e just flew back from Japan and boy are our arms tired!.....

Anyway, while we were there, Soke commented as he often does that we have to make sure we are training the right people. People with good hearts who will not use our art for bad purposes. I commented that these people often times weed themselves out of the organization during training. Either they get bounced a bit hard by the higher ranks or we are not teaching them to kill soon enough. This thread reminded me of that conversation.

I am amazed at the people who say "80 % of the bujinkan dojos that I have been to are..". How many dojos have you been to? There are thousands. What were they teaching at the time you visited. I visited Dale's Dojo in Calif. a few years ago. He sent an E-mail to my teaching to let him know that they were not a bunch of weirdos - thinking we might think so because they were training with defense against an opponent with a large rifle (training was great!). Lets not judge a book by the cover.

More silly is the video given in which they attempt to compare basic bujincan instruction with street brawling or sparring. When you first learned to write, did you not also use the big fat pencil. It does take a while to develop the basic skills that allow you to start to train in Shinkengata. In the mean time, people who never saw a punch come at their face will at least learn to get out of the way!

Clouds of Gnats are irritating, but if you just keep walking, you don't have to spend a lot of time using bug spray.

Marty

Posted on: 2008/4/9 1:16
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Re: what are you training?
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mrdunsky wrote:

More silly is the video given in which they attempt to compare basic bujincan instruction with street brawling or sparring.

Marty


Please - for the love of all that is good in the world - quit trying to defend the BJK videos that are picked on.

They SHOULD be picked on. It is one thing to teach basics in a class... it is another to put that video online and tag it as BJK. No one forced anyone to put those vids up... someone was "proud" of those little moments - proud enough to digitize them and upload them to youtube...

The collective "we" SHOULD be disgusted those vids ever made it online.

Period.

And yeah - the video guy has an anti-BJK agenda. It is just too easy for him to collect video evidence of our "suck". And that is our fault.

Anyway - just laugh at it. But PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE quit defending it. Makes us look like we aren't above it.

-Daniel

Posted on: 2008/4/9 1:37
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Re: what are you training?
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How do you make the conclusion that its the art that needs an overhaul and not the cult of personality who sells diluted budo? Who is truly accountable for losing a fight to another person? I have to believe its the person and not their martial tradition.
I never made that conclusion and I agree with it being the person and not the tradition. And to be fair, it is like that in most martial arts schools regardless of the style being taught.

People will default to their training. You have to have the software to match the hardware, otherwise the hardware is useless.

When you see people lock up or turtle in a fight, they have defaulted to their training and there was nothing in their bag of tricks to pull out when the SHTF.

There is no such thing as rising to the occasion and becoming a badass all of a sudden. You are not going to automagically adapt a kata to something you have never seen spontaneously.

Posted on: 2008/4/9 1:51
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Re: what are you training?
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You sure showed me.

Posted on: 2008/4/9 4:57
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Re: what are you training?
Village Old Timer
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From Dayton, Ohio
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Danny wrote:
Quote:

The collective "we" SHOULD be disgusted those vids ever made it online.

Period.

And yeah - the video guy has an anti-BJK agenda. It is just too easy for him to collect video evidence of our "suck". And that is our fault.

Anyway - just laugh at it. But PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE quit defending it. Makes us look like we aren't above it.


I think I understand your knee-jerk need to respond to anything that differs from your sense of what is important, but I know that things get posted on You-tube without permission and for a variety of reasons. And while it is possible that you spouted from the womb writing prose on a computer, most people had to start with the big fat pencil and phonetics. Criticizing beginners for being beginners is not a quality of an advanced student.

So that you will understand it, I will use capitol letters and repeat...

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE stop talking for everyone when you make your collective put-downs.

Marty

Posted on: 2008/4/9 5:47
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