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Re: Article on sparring...
Kutaki Postmaster
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Hmm. A couple of questions.

1. Tied up for how long?

For example one can get taken down and still potentially recover before the others get a shot.

2. What is the defender allowed in regards to response?

Also, you mention a bear hug. While this is "tied-up"
I am not clear. If person B gets you in a bear hug and than person C goes in for the attack it is more than possible to shift in a way that person C ends up hitting not you but his\her partner.

It does sound like fun. Just looking for clarification on the overall parameters.

Posted on: 2008/6/5 8:13
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Re: Article on sparring...
Kutaki Postmaster
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I like that drill, but I would add the ropes. I happen to like ropes.

Posted on: 2008/6/5 8:17
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Re: Article on sparring...
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Quote:

Nicky690 wrote:
Hmm. A couple of questions.

1. Tied up for how long?

For example one can get taken down and still potentially recover before the others get a shot.


#1. Your call. I don't stop it until it looks like a dogpile of sorts.

Quote:

Nicky690 wrote:

2. What is the defender allowed in regards to response?

Also, you mention a bear hug. While this is "tied-up"
I am not clear. If person B gets you in a bear hug and than person C goes in for the attack it is more than possible to shift in a way that person C ends up hitting not you but his\her partner.

It does sound like fun. Just looking for clarification on the overall parameters.


#2: Anything goes -

Here is where it gets tricky. As you add people (3 is pretty much the limit in a normal room) - the guy trying to stay mobile will need to start really fighting to stay out of trouble. He doesn't have time for nice, clean work - so he will start to panic and move more towards 100% speed and commitment on his defensive tactics - which is bad for everyone. You have to keep a tight rein on this as it escalates quickly.

As to the bear hug - as long as he is mobile and looking like he might get back out, I let it go. The second he is really only fighting the hold, I stop it.

I start everyone off at about 50% speed and intensity - and when they clear 75%-ish... I cut the drill and start back over. You will find intensity ramps up VERY fast.

-Daniel

Posted on: 2008/6/5 8:38
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Re: Article on sparring...
Permanent Village Fixture
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I see....

rope could be cool too though...

What Dan described reminds me about the pressure drills (is this still sparring? WTF, who cares) that Patrick used to put us through few years back in the era of our Bay Area Buyu Center. You face 2-4 attackers, each of them having a big kick-shield-pad strapped to his/her arms. They will go an hit at you with those pads anyway they want. Their goal is to take you down and gang on you or to surround you and gang on you. You cannot hit them (but you can hit the pads if you want) and you have to move in such a way to find a good "safe shape space" and play the attackers positions so that you survive. Reset is when they gang on you or after 2 minutes.

Great excercise becaue (a) it is relatively safe (no black eyes, torn tendons etc.) (b) creates a lot of pressure because the bangs with the shields are hard enough to ....displace you and the intent of the attackers is real. They can forget about "being gentle to you" with the pads there is not so much risk of injury. (c) the pressure created is such that actually people can get tunnel vision, very high heart rate, lose breath etc... so next time you do this you work on not getting there..

Aha, occasionally Patrick would add to this very loud and ugly music (like really, really bad heavy metal) played from two different boom-boxes each of them playing something different. Talk about sensory deprivation.

I think the "chaos" (ran) part of the randori is really important difference form the stiff form training. It is easier to go into playing with henka after experiencing both polarities (stiff form and complete chaos). In randori you need to keep your flow independently form the fog of war around....

The focus of these drills was really on flowing into (and creating) a "safe shape space" under extreme pressure.

..and I did not want to post anything about sparring eh whatever. Back to work.

mn

Quote:

Hissatsu wrote:
Quote:

mario wrote:

Dan, by "tie up" do you mean "immobilize" in this context or something else? Sorry, my poor English is creeping out. (like I begin thinking: do the attackers have ropes for tying up? ).

thanks
mn


LOL

No ropes - just restrained (most of the time on the ground - but standing, bear hug, etc is considered a reset as well).

The point being that once you are tied up - his buddies can do with you what they want. Once you lose mobility in a multiple attacker situation, you have effectively lost your ability to stop what is happening.

The interesting parts come when you introduce a second person to the first guy's team. The attackers aren't aware he isn't on their side, and he isn't trying to tie them up - just keep the first person mobile. The first person isn't aware he is on their side either... so he will probably try to fight his new "friend".



Anyway - just fun drills.

-Daniel

Posted on: 2008/6/5 8:44
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Re: Article on sparring...
Villager
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From Grove City, Ohio
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What Danny is putting out there is a REALLY good drill-this is what I train for on a daily basis-I work in a prison and sometimes it's 1 on 1 and sometimes it's 200 on 1-you can never tell-it might take reinforements 3 minutes to respond to your aid, so any training that can help with multiple attackers is GOOD training

People tend to feel on this site that sparring is such a bad thing or not needed so think about this for a second....

You might think your inshape with your current exercise curriculum, but I can attest that rolling around on the floor for 3-5 mins will open a lot of people's eyes if they haven't done it before-most people can go 30 secs before they are gassed.......when your life depends on it as does mine, I feel it plays a vital role in our training as a whole.....


sean snyder

Posted on: 2008/6/5 11:13
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Sean Snyder
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Re: Article on sparring...
村長 :: Sonchou
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Hi Sean,

Can I ask why it is that you make a daily choice to do that job?

Shawn

Posted on: 2008/6/5 11:24
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Re: Article on sparring...
Villager
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From Grove City, Ohio
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Hey Shawn,

I really enjoy my job-it fits my personality-It's taught me to humble myself a great deal being locked up for 8 hrs a day-the only difference is I go home at night-I know I never want to spend 20 yrs in prison and working there has helped me to curve my temper and make better choices-I really appreciate the things I have a lot more like my daughter and wife

it's funny when I'm sitting at work and an inmate will walk up and say "what is that?" and I reply "Starbucks coffee"-these guys may have never heard of starbucks, but we see them everyday-it really makes you enjoy life and freedom a lot more

Secondly, i've learned just from watching them-you learn how to read people and know when you're being played-Intent in prison is so profound compared to the streets-these guys are always scamming and trying to play you-you have to sort out what's real and what's not

It's great training on a daily basis



take care Shawn


Sean Snyder

Posted on: 2008/6/5 11:47
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Re: Article on sparring...
Villager
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From Texas & West Coast, USA
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A nice article IMO on the drilling process here....http://aliveness101.blogspot.com/

Dom,

Matt Thornton's recent article is so good, it deserves its own thread here. Even though he is mostly discussing BJJ, one can read between the lines, IMHO. The importance of experiential learning should not be minimized.

Cheers,

Posted on: 2008/6/7 19:14
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