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Re: Gyokko Ryu....
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Quote:

D_Cecc wrote:
You may want to take a look at a random Chinese system that has roots to the time of Gyokko ryu's founding, and take a look at a "native" Japanese school from around the same period.

There might be difficulties with this, as Gyokko-ryû has said to have been formed in the 16th century, but it's roots reach back to the 12th century...

IIRC.

On the other hand... I saw a filming of a founder of a modern self defence system (taped in his later years in 70's IIRC), who had been a police officer in Shanghai on the early 20th century. The things he showed were very similar to those we have in Gyokko-ryû. Also I've seen books on Chin-na that remind me of the teachings of Gyokko-ryû.

But, then, a human can only be manipulated in certain ways in any school

Posted on: 2008/6/9 16:33
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Re: Gyokko Ryu....
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Another interesting kutaki thread.

I can't wait to read everyone's conclusion.


Posted on: 2008/6/9 17:34
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Re: Gyokko Ryu....
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I do not much about the Chinese styles in history but I trained wing Tsun under Sifu Emin Boztepe (now founder of E.b.m.a.s. system, the Sifu who beat William Cheung in 24 seconds)for about 3 years and I see some common points.
When you look at Gyokko's Ichimonji you try to hide the groin area with feet position and knees. This is the same with wing Tsun. This position also gives me the idea of very close fighting sothat you can not see the kick coming to your groin are and you make sure you protect there.
Also the punching looks similar with Southern style and Wing Tsun style punch.
The joint locks do not give me the same impression though.
Just my thoughts

Posted on: 2008/6/9 20:54
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Re: Gyokko Ryu....
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Quote:

Toruko-jin wrote:
"I do not much about the Chinese styles in history but I trained wing Tsun under Sifu Emin Boztepe (now founder of E.b.m.a.s. system, the Sifu who beat William Cheung in 24 seconds)for about 3 years and I see some common points.
When you look at Gyokko's Ichimonji you try to hide the groin area with feet position and knees. This is the same with wing Tsun. This position also gives me the idea of very close fighting sothat you can not see the kick coming to your groin are and you make sure you protect there.
Also the punching looks similar with Southern style and Wing Tsun style punch.
The joint locks do not give me the same impression though.
Just my thoughts"



I've been thinking about that foot positioning. It seems to cover the groin, but expose the side of the knee. What's up with that?

Posted on: 2008/6/10 6:40
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Re: Gyokko Ryu....
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Hello!

Sorry if this come sout rude... but if you don't have menkyou kaiden in this school, don't post statements of what the school is and is not!!!

Ercan, there are other schools in Bujinkan that might be closer what you are reffering to, ask me next time we meet .

Posted on: 2008/6/10 7:32
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Re: Gyokko Ryu....
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Something that may be of interest.

Several years ago I visited Itsukushima Shrine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itsukushima_Shrine on New Years. There is a famous dance performed there over three days then. The one on New Years day is the most famous but I visited the one on the second or third day. Four men entered the stage and did a very slow dance to the strained sounds of court instruments from old Japan.

What was interesting was a large part of the dance was stepping to Hira Ichimonji no Kamae. Then to Ichimonji no kamae. Then to Hicho no kamae. Then I think from memory they stamped their foot and performed it in another direction until all directions had been covered. There was also a cross step kamae seen in another schools version of Koto Ryu.

One I returned to Tokyo for the start of training I asked Hatsumi sensei about this because I wondered if there was a connection between this shrine and the Gyokko / Koto Ryu. Maybe he didn’t know about this dance?

He answered me without even a pause. He said because both this dance, music and our budo all came from China at the same time. And that was all.

Posted on: 2008/6/10 10:36
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Re: Gyokko Ryu....
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I think that Popey The Sailor Man knew Gyokko Ryu cause he would always hit Bluto in "Asagasumi" and he had circular movements. Also he walked kinda' like Hatsumi Sensei so I think that Hatsumi Sensei refigned his Gyokko Ryu from watching Popeye re-runs.

Does Hatsumi Sensei like spinach?

Posted on: 2008/6/10 11:25
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Re: Gyokko Ryu....
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Quote:

kabuto wrote:
Sorry if this come sout rude... but if you don't have menkyou kaiden in this school, don't post statements of what the school is and is not!!!


Sorry Matt, but I think it is kind of wishful thinking to say don't post unless you have menkyou. Not to many of those folks around, let alone posting on the internet. This forum is used by those of us without credentials to gather information and share woes. We take the information for what it is worth.

Marty

Posted on: 2008/6/10 11:40
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Re: Gyokko Ryu....
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Quote:

Kasumi wrote:

One I returned to Tokyo for the start of training I asked Hatsumi sensei about this because I wondered if there was a connection between this shrine and the Gyokko / Koto Ryu. Maybe he didn’t know about this dance?

He answered me without even a pause. He said because both this dance, music and our budo all came from China at the same time. And that was all.



This is pretty interesting Chris. Thanks.
There are quite a few videos of this dance on youtube.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auatZN1P1l4&feature=related




Posted on: 2008/6/10 13:02
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Re: Gyokko Ryu....
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Thanks Chris and Dominic for the mention of Itsukushima. I lived down in Hiroshima in 1990 and used to go over to the island/shrine almost every weekend to hike, sketch, write poetry and look around. I was never there at New Years though, so I hadn't seen the dance before - thanks!

Quote:
He answered me without even a pause. He said because both this dance, music and our budo all came from China at the same time. And that was all.


Sensei has a great ability to provide a multi-level response with such few words.

Shawn

Posted on: 2008/6/10 13:26
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