Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
Socialize
 

Recent Topics
Topic Replies Last Post
TOGAKURE'S TAJ JUTSU 13 Yesterday 12:54
fskopfpatro
Papa San RIP 3 Yesterday 12:43
fskopfpatro
Kito Ryu Ten No Maki 16 Yesterday 12:40
fskopfpatro
Anyone tried Rosetta Stone? 20 2017/12/10 13:18
fskopfpatro
BladesPro 14 2017/12/9 17:45
fskopfpatro

Browsing this Thread:   1 Anonymous Users





On Budoka
Village Old Timer
Joined:
2004/12/21 19:52
From Dayton, Ohio
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 884
Offline
In Soke's new book "Unarmed Fighting Techniques of the Samurai", he discusses Budoka on page 20. I would be interested to see what people take from this. Certainly it is very open for interpretation. I think the feeling is evident but the specifics are from from obvious. How do you interpret this?

Marty

Posted on: 2008/7/19 8:27
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: On Budoka
Cant Stay Offline
Joined:
2003/2/4 2:12
From Sacramento, CA (USA)
Group:
村民 :: Villager
村長 :: Admin
議長 :: Mod
Posts: 1024
Offline
I hate math...

In reading it, I can't help but wonder if the Japanese version might be a bit clearer.

"So, as for the passing marks for the "consciousness literary and military arts" (this includes both conscious and unconscious)..." - this seems contradictory and confusing.

I think "unconscious" is actually "subconscious", right?

I see a need to balance the literary (intellectual & artistic), military (application to combat), heart (kokoro?) and perseverance (nin) in equal parts - both on a conscious and subconscious level. That means conscious in intent and subconscious in making it a part of who you are. Being a budoka is to nurture these aspects equally, like spinning plates. Neglect one too long and it crashes to the ground - balance is in giving equal attention to each one. At least that's my first attempt at making sense of a confusing passage.

Geezleweez, I am not that analytical of a budoka! I need an aspirin and a drink...

Posted on: 2008/7/19 10:52
_________________
Darren Dumas

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, or in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. ~ Thomas Jefferson
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: On Budoka
Permanent Village Fixture
Joined:
2006/2/11 15:33
From Cupertino, CA
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 389
Offline
First of all, the way I see it, this book is "everything": martial art, visual art, poetry, prose, sub-conscious, contrasts. As such it is extremely hard to talk about it and not to "flatten the dimensions".


Quote:

Darren wrote:
I hate math...

... and I love it! for me, mathematics is like any other language used to describe things around us and to communicate. And like any language - it has its limitations. And those limitations are IMHO, a base of a little jokes that Sensei is making in this passage

Quote:

In reading it, I can't help but wonder if the Japanese version might be a bit clearer.

the answer is on page 283, top of the right column...

..and I was wondering the opposite: How many puns and allusions were not possible to translate here... (the answer is still on page 283, top of the right column... ).

I want to work on understanding Japanese more. It is very, very cool that the original text is included! My Japanese is very, very low level, but this book just gave me additional motivation to work on it. That is the part of "literary art"-work...

Quote:

(..)
I see a need to balance the literary (intellectual & artistic), military (application to combat), heart (kokoro?) and perseverance (nin) in equal parts - both on a conscious and subconscious level. (...)

yes...
I have the same feeling: seems that this particular passage contains also the allusions to "pen and sword" ( the same kanji like in the title of the blog from Erizabesu...).



mn

Posted on: 2008/7/19 18:17
_________________
peace,
Mariusz
San Francisco Bujinkan Dojo
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: On Budoka
Village Old Timer
Joined:
2003/2/2 5:12
From Matsudo City, Chiba, Japan
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 661
Offline
Mariusz,

Remember where I took my inspiration - 文武両道 bunbu ryodo - the creed that appears in the Bujinkan guidelines. Bunbu ryodo informs many martial arts. And the literary arts range, I believe, from fine arts to history to philosophy. And math and number play Soke's brilliant with puns, word and number riddles.

BTW, I saw the book, but have yet to get my own copy of it.

Posted on: 2008/7/19 22:11
_________________
"It's harder to be kind than clever."
- Jeff Bezos
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: On Budoka
Village Old Timer
Joined:
2004/12/21 19:52
From Dayton, Ohio
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 884
Offline
Perhaps I'm being too liberal with my reading, but sometimes you have to forget the distractions to see what people are trying to say. At least on one level, I feel Sensei is saying that 1 - in the end, you have to have both an Academic Mind and Physical Technique to be a martial artist, but 2- while training, you have to work more on the Physical training than the intellect. However throughout it all 3- the most important component of a budoka is their Heart and ability to endure.

A friend of ours has said he feels this book is written as a distraction, kind of a Chinese finger trap for the intellectuals. Maybe this is a good example?

Marty

Posted on: 2008/7/19 23:17
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: On Budoka
Cant Stay Offline
Joined:
2003/2/4 2:12
From Sacramento, CA (USA)
Group:
村民 :: Villager
村長 :: Admin
議長 :: Mod
Posts: 1024
Offline
Quote:

mrdunsky wrote:
A friend of ours has said he feels this book is written as a distraction, kind of a Chinese finger trap for the intellectuals. Maybe this is a good example?

Marty


I had the feeling this book is both demon and angel at the same time. Depending on the person, it could trap them (demon) or release them (angel). Since we spent all last year learning about demons and this year learning about kyojutsu (although both have been in all previous years), I have to wonder if the material in this book is also a lesson in both.

What I find funny is, just like Soke's budo, the difference in whether or not it is demon or angel depends on the person receiving it.

His analogy to this book being a "bible", containing "scripture" and "gospel", is interesting, but I won't get into my personal beliefs here.

As I said in another forum, you can't look at the omote. The kuden exists in the ura. Make sense? At least that's what I've come to learn.

Posted on: 2008/7/20 2:00
_________________
Darren Dumas

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, or in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. ~ Thomas Jefferson
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: On Budoka
Permanent Village Fixture
Joined:
2006/2/11 15:33
From Cupertino, CA
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 389
Offline
Quote:

Erizabesu wrote:
Mariusz,

Remember where I took my inspiration - 文武両道 bunbu ryodo - the creed that appears in the Bujinkan guidelines.



thank you for reminding that, Liz. Sure, I knew the English translation of the guidelines and remembered about your motivation. However, the kanji I remembered from your blog's title . Anyway. at the usual risk of messing up the yugen in my previous post... what I was also trying to say is that your blog actually reflects the mixture that is mentioned in this particular fragment that Marty mentioned.


Quote:

Bunbu ryodo informs many martial arts. And the literary arts range, I believe, from fine arts to history to philosophy. And math and number play Soke's brilliant with puns, word and number riddles.


the pen can be used for writing numbers and formulas as well as for rounded sentences and essays - all depends upon the moment, the flow and the mindset...

pen can be used for cutting and poking just as one can write in the sand with the sword.

Quote:

BTW, I saw the book, but have yet to get my own copy of it.


well, you are closer to the Author and His direct environment, so this might have distracted you from rushing to get the copy... you are excused .

peace my friend! BTW: I am always looking forward to seeing new posts on your blog...

mn

Posted on: 2008/7/20 6:18
_________________
peace,
Mariusz
San Francisco Bujinkan Dojo
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: On Budoka
Permanent Village Fixture
Joined:
2006/2/11 15:33
From Cupertino, CA
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 389
Offline
Marty, Darren,

I have similar thoughts/feelings about this book.

Without even opening it, look again at the back of the cover, read the text that is there... add to it the two pictures that were chosen for the cover.

mn

Posted on: 2008/7/20 6:27
_________________
peace,
Mariusz
San Francisco Bujinkan Dojo
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: On Budoka
Villager
Joined:
2003/4/22 10:53
From Northern California
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 63
Offline
The text on page 20 conjures up memories of when I would talk to my labordor puppy. Most of the time he would turn his head to the side and look dumbfounded. He was quick to figure out the meaning though!

Hopefully I'll be as smart as a lab puppy someday.

Posted on: 2008/7/20 9:21
_________________
Robert Krone


"Stupid fast moving modern zombies!!
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: On Budoka
Village Old Timer
Joined:
2003/2/2 5:12
From Matsudo City, Chiba, Japan
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 661
Offline
Mariusz, I'm looking at a lotus blossom. This always takes me a while

I think sensei has been looking at a lotus blossom for so long that his pictures of it so dense with meaning that only those who've gone the distance with him can interpret his meaning well. I think he draws those lotus blossoms for himself, out of a desire to make art, and shares them with us because he has confidence that there are people will get meaning from it.

Soke's the James Joyce of budo

Posted on: 2008/7/20 10:47
_________________
"It's harder to be kind than clever."
- Jeff Bezos
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer







[Advanced Search]


Today's Sponsor