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Re: Togakushi's Own Shidoshi
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[quote]
noname wrote:
I think the human weapon episode clearly illustrated that x amount of years training in soke's public sessions doesn't necessarily mean anything significant in terms of martial skill.....




Really? You can make judgments like this from watching a TV show? I would be very hesitant to judge another's martial arts skills if I did not train with them one on one.

Posted on: 2008/8/2 12:31
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Re: Togakushi's Own Shidoshi
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Quote:
noname wrote: I think the human weapon episode clearly illustrated that x amount of years training in soke's public sessions doesn't necessarily mean anything significant in terms of martial skill.....


The higher ranks may be based on recommendations by higher ranked individuals. I agree there are some high ranking individuals that were probably promoted based on politics or because of other accomplishments outside the realm of the organization. Those individuals are usually easy to spot because they are always to trying to get attention. You see them always crowding Hatsumi sensei for photo opportunities and what not. Some are always trying to do the seminar circuit thing. (most common in Europe,South America and some foreign residents in Japan) I sometimes think they are pretending to be Hollywood-type celebrities in the Bujinkan microcosmos. Others are trying to build small kingdoms within the organization trying to get people to follow them. (most common in Canada,North America, Australia and some foreign residents in Japan) There are brotherhoods and cult like groups floating around amongst the ranks. Some wear T-shirts and others wear bracelets and different trinkets to let you know who they are. Some are based in Christian beliefs and other are steeped in other belief systems like Native American shamanism. These situations are actually quite common in alot of organizations not just martial-based Japanese ones.

Bujinkan takes alot of flak because of popularity which draws more attention to itself and thus more criticisms. It also attracts folks from all walks of life. That is a good and bad thing. Not helping are all the videos of unskilled practitioners posting clips on youtube. The biggest problem which someone else pointed out and I totally agree are people defending or making claims and have no business doing such. People with less than one year experience making all sorts of foolish claims. Even people who have been in the organization for awhile and still don't know anything. Alot times there are people who are in 'KNOW' but are ill-equipped when it comes to debating skills. That more than anything hurts this organization more than anything.

The individuals that best represent the Bujinkan (mental and physical skills)are usually too low-key and busy training to squabble on the internet.

P.S. Don't confuse low-key the way it is used by the original starter of this thread "Takajo" to describe or maybe lack of description for his teacher Mr. Matsuhashi.
I have an urge to drink a Sprite.

Posted on: 2008/8/2 19:36
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Re: Togakushi's Own Shidoshi
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Quote:
noname wrote: I think the human weapon episode clearly illustrated that x amount of years training in soke's public sessions doesn't necessarily mean anything significant in terms of martial skill.....

Really? You can make judgments like this from watching a TV show? I would be very hesitant to judge another's martial arts skills if I did not train with them one on one.


Noname,

After watching Human Weapon, could you please remind us of your opinion about the positive and negative things about the skills displayed by the Bujinkan practitioners?

I could be mistaken whether it was you or not but didn't you in the past post video clips of your sparring sessions. You also asked people on the forum for feed back correct? I believe it was in somebody's backyard. You had a ponytail..right? I believe this is you:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fus ... dividual&videoid=18031917

Do you train with Kendall Kelsoe in Austin, Texas? (Tanemaki Dojo)


One of his students was involved in the infamous Bujinkan/Bullshido controversy when the guy was choked out by a Bullshido member on video. The whole situation can be seen here.

www.youtube.com/user/yermomlikesme

P.S. i am not sure if this should be moved to the new thread about Human Weapon. Moderator if you think this particular post should be moved then please do so.

Posted on: 2008/8/2 19:53
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Re: Togakushi's Own Shidoshi
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Quote:


Do you train with Kendall Kelsoe in Austin, Texas? (Tanemaki Dojo)


One of his students was involved in the infamous Bujinkan/Bullshido controversy when the guy was choked out by a Bullshido member on video. The whole situation can be seen here.

www.youtube.com/user/yermomlikesme

P.S. i am not sure if this should be moved to the new thread about Human Weapon. Moderator if you think this particular post should be moved then please do so.


Hehehehe..that kid obviously did nothing on that fight but it is the individuals responsibility. Maybe his sensei showed some newaza but he could not get it or was not at the class.
I am sorry to see that most of the Bujinkan Buyus do not train for reality. Ground fighting (not just ground fighting )is the reality of today, all MMA or BJJ guys love to find a Bujinkan and get down to the ground. I am happy to know that we also have ground fighting and can be used against these sports and you can see it on you tube that a German Bujinkan Buyu makes the BJJ guys tap.
I know our art has totally different aspect but if a ground fighter takes you to the ground he can kill you with a choke, no? so this is also a lethal attack. Actually they use most of the same things we use but they use it with variety and they also train to escape from chokes and locks.
We need to sweat more, just my 2 cents.

Posted on: 2008/8/2 21:16
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Re: Togakushi's Own Shidoshi
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I know Kendall well and he is a very good practicioner of our art. I also looked at those clips, what a load of BS! The one teaching was still very young and didn't really defend with what we would defend if this was for real. I saw lots of eye, neck, and groin opportunities that would have ended this travesty. This young gent was obviously trying NOT to fight and so allowing this other idiot young man to play in his own game. I don't see how this could have been taken as proof of ANYTHING!
It always seems that the young inexperienced ones are those picked on to prove the "ineffectiveness" of ninjutsu again what a load of crap!!! I feel sympathy for the young man caught in a situation where his instructor has told him NOT to fight being pushed into a "friendly" contest. It just again proves the uselessness of these little videos posted on the internet. My advice is make your own evaluation of what you are learning and leave the egoistic _______ alone.

Posted on: 2008/8/2 22:29
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Re: Togakushi's Own Shidoshi
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I think this should be moved to a new thread. After my questions concerning "Noname" the conversation seems to be diverging from the original topic of this thread.

Posted on: 2008/8/3 1:14
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Re: Togakushi's Own Shidoshi
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"Noname,

After watching Human Weapon, could you please remind us of your opinion about the positive and negative things about the skills displayed by the Bujinkan practitioners?"

Sure....

1. The first Bujinkan guy who sparred looked way too serious, like he was trying to look good or was nervous and trying to hide it. He also did not keep proper distance alot of the time; he remained in the "kill zone" alot of the time. On the other hand, he tried a variety of tactics, which is always a good thing in training, and he got some good cuts.

2. The second Bujinkan guy who sparred looked like he had good staff work. He seemed much more relaxed with the whole situation. Fantastically, he drew first blood with a beautiful head cut. However, after he abandoned his sword his advantage dissipated (which is unfortunate).


"I could be mistaken whether it was you or not but didn't you in the past post video clips of your sparring sessions. You also asked people on the forum for feed back correct? I believe it was in somebody's backyard. You had a ponytail..right? I believe this is you:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fus ... al&videoid=18031917"

Wow, I forgot that I had actually grown my hair out that long.

Anyways, yup that's me....unfortunately my training partner for the sparring clips you are talking about didn't want to "go at it" very often; more often than not the sessions were quite light and not very committed. If I remember correctly, most of the videos I posted were of sword sparring.

Oh yes, and let's not forget that I am NOT a 15th or 13th degree black belt representing our art on television.


"Do you train with Kendall Kelsoe in Austin, Texas? (Tanemaki Dojo)"

Yes, among other teachers.


"One of his students was involved in the infamous Bujinkan/Bullshido controversy when the guy was choked out by a Bullshido member on video. The whole situation can be seen here.

www.youtube.com/user/yermomlikesme

"


a. The fact that two kids wrestling in a drainage ditch qualifies as "infamous" is sad....

b. Yes I recall the incident. Pretty funny actually......it's not me, if that's what you are thinking. I like to think that I would have given Devon(BJJ'ist) a little bit more trouble than that.

That person wrestling with Devon would be Seth, who no longer trains with us for a variety of reasons.

"I feel sympathy for the young man caught in a situation where his instructor has told him NOT to fight being pushed into a "friendly" contest."

Unfortunately Mr. Martin, if I remember the details correctly, this "match" occurred prior to Kendall having any knowledge of what was going on. Devon(the BJJ'ist) apparently choked out one of Seth's "students" at some sort of social gathering after that student insulted BJJ in a very crass manner. The situation accelerated from there (from what I've been told).

Posted on: 2008/8/3 1:54
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Re: Togakushi's Own Shidoshi
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wow, I actually just looked at the video you linked (of Seth).......that's painful to watch. I thought you had linked the actual wrestling video.

Posted on: 2008/8/3 2:00
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