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Re: Help with translation
Village Old Timer
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This is what I know, but someone can please confirm that it is written correctly?

千早振る神の教えはとこしに正しき心身を守るらん。

Posted on: 2008/11/25 11:36
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Re: Help with translation
村長 :: Sonchou
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I think its "tokoshiE ni", not "tokoshi ni".

"Tokoshie ni" could be rendered as:
- 常しえに ("to eternity"), or
- 永久に ("everlastingly, unlimited")

Hope that helps,

S

Posted on: 2008/11/25 12:12
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Re: Help with translation
Village Old Timer
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Thanks Shawn! That explains why I came up empty on とこしwhen I looked it up in the dictionary.

Anyone can elaborate on the origin of the phrase? And is it verse? It certainly fits the tanka form - 5 7 5 7 7.

Posted on: 2008/11/25 13:04
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Re: Help with translation
村長 :: Sonchou
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As another note, when I look around at different sites on the net, they are most often rendering the transliteration as:

"Chihayaburu, kami no oshie ha/wa ..." (with a comma or break between the first two words).

However, there is no pause or break between the Chihayafuru and the kami. Chiyahafuru is used to describe the kami, not as some kind of separate "unknown" that is just tacked onto the beginning of the phrase before "the teachings of *od ..." Perhaps this is a result of the 5-7-5-7-7 pattern, but if you look at the image of it here: http://home.luna.nl/~risu/graphics/zijkant.jpg you can see there there is no comma between Chihayaburu and Kami. This means that the phrase is referring to not just any kami, but the "chihayaburu-kami." That is (very literally), "the god of a thousand swift shakes." What does that mean?

One place to start would be the previous threads where this was discussed in detail before :

1) http://www.kutaki.org/modules/newbb/v ... ost_id=7203#forumpost7203

2) http://www.kutaki.org/modules/newbb/v ... ost_id=7964#forumpost7964

Shawn

Posted on: 2008/11/25 13:24
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Re: Help with translation
Village Old Timer
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Well it is a slow night at work.

So lets go another route with this...

I have heard that there is another somewhat ruder interpretation of this poem. The basic variant meaning "do not bother the gods with things that are human."

Philosophically, I don't think this is really very far from The budo spirits protecting those with good hearts, because people with good hearts would know not to bother the gods with human troubles. We should know to only ask for assistance in understanding, perseverence, and inner peace.

Has anyone ever heard of this version?


Marty

Posted on: 2008/11/26 13:55
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