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Re: Firearms Training
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I appreciate the reality in the last several posts - thank you. Other things people don't realize involve the weapon discharging during any counter techniques. Grabbing the slide/ejection port of a semi-auto pistol and having it discharge a round (or more) will cause damage to your hand from the sheer force of the blast and a hot round ejecting out. In addition, you have to take responsibility for where those rounds go. Innocent bystanders, friends, family all can be killed by stray rounds caused from hitting or grappling with a firearm.

Then there's the whole issue of ricochet...

These things need to be realized by anybody who trains in such techniques. The dangers are so multi-faceted that true avoidance of these situations, compliance if being robbed, and other such things need to be the primary consideration. This isn't Hollywood...

Posted on: 2008/12/25 6:46
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Darren Dumas

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Re: Firearms Training
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That´s true as well. One more reason to get theory first. For example how does a weapon fire and reload and how do I see in a fraction of a minute which type is aiming at me. As well as training to recognize if a weapon is still secured or not.

Actually I believe, that most people realize the drastic reality of such a situation, once they stare into the barrel. I just think that this type of training attracts a very special kind of guys (you can see it in the videos).

Maybe training should be less rough (sporting) and more scary, this might open some eyes. Then they might be more willing to train to compromise, ´cause that you have to train as well.

Posted on: 2008/12/26 7:26
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Re: Firearms Training
Village Old Timer
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I try to avoid carrying guns. I carried a gun everyday for about 1,5 years, it gave me a good feeling and over-confidence. Without the gun I felt like naked, that is when I decided not to carry one even I was in danger.
If you are an officer or professional, that is a different story though. I think carrying a gun as a pro. and as a regular person is totally different.

Posted on: 2008/12/27 2:04
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Re: Firearms Training
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Quote:

Toruko-jin wrote:
I try to avoid carrying guns. I carried a gun everyday for about 1,5 years, it gave me a good feeling and over-confidence. Without the gun I felt like naked. . .


So did I, before commencing training in the Bujinkan. I didn't feel confident about my karate training. After starting with the Bujinkan, I stopped.

For the past several years, until about the middle of this year, I wore one just about every day as a professional. At that point it was simply a tool I was required to have on the job.

Posted on: 2008/12/27 4:52
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Re: Firearms Training
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I do agree gents, I also choose not to carry one even though I am licensed for concealed carry. Part of that is simply if I use a gun to control a "bad guy" and the police come up, their guns are pointed at ME. That' why I prefer my cane as it is not a threat and in the hands of a knowledgeable taijutsu practicioner is all the equalizer you need. If I'm standing over the "bad guy" with my cane the guns are pointed at HIM.

Posted on: 2008/12/27 12:07
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Re: Firearms Training
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Many martial artists I encounter that do not have any history of firearms training kind of regard firearms as a caveman point-and-click kind of deal that requires no skill. It really is not, and proficiency in firearms is a martial art in and of itself.

The reality is that firearms are here to stay. (Even Sarah Brady bought her son a "high powered" rifle.) You should know about them because they are one of the most common tools used by criminals to control their victims.

Whether you LIKE guns or not, you should be familiar with them if you want to be a well-rounded martial artist. Guns are kind of like the new sword.

Posted on: 2008/12/27 15:43
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Re: Firearms Training
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Well, I guess this depends on where you live.

If you live for example in Norway, a lot of police officers will not carry guns. So criminals don´t really need guns.

If you live in the Congo, handling pistols might still not be enough.

If you live in Bosnia mines are a very common threat.

My opinion is that you can´t be perfect in everything. You might however specialize in, how to avoid conflicts and how to deescalate.

Posted on: 2008/12/27 19:31
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"Why? Why am I punished? I`ve led an innocent life ..."

"Thou art a child of nature.
Thou shalt know that it art a crime to murder thy mother.
Yet, I hear her skriek in horror ... "
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Re: Firearms Training
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I used to carry a gun on me, simply because it was normal in my occupation, and I actually felt "vulnerable" without it during my off times. I would also sit in corners, evaluate every person in a room, know where exits were, etc.

We had some off duty folks meet some of their "customers" on occasion, so it was "normal" to be this way at all times.

But, now that I'm older, have a family and don't do those occupations anymore, I just don't feel I *need* to carry such a tool. In fact, the few times I've done so on trips, I felt like it was more of a burden. I was always aware of the thing and found it more of a distraction, knowing that if a problem ensued, I could end up pulling it instead of taking other, less life threatening options. Considering the overwhelming majority of situations are not potentially lethal and can be avoided or escaped, this just seemed unnecessary.

Besides I feel that my Bujinkan training has given me two wonderful attributes:

1. A much better and clearer awareness of danger, and...
2. Much less dependence on having to use or do anything specific in order to avoid or eliminate the danger

This is very different from my "lock and load" days...

Posted on: 2008/12/29 10:37
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Darren Dumas

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, or in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. ~ Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Firearms Training
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One thing you might consider is the "Polite Society". They are more about learning through team feedback and actual testing tactics for the individual. Here's one good essay that is still making me think.

http://www.utahpolitesociety.org/read ... -rules-of-engagement.html

There are multiple issues to consider, including escalation of force, non-shooting solutions to problems, and lawful use of deadly force.

Leam

Posted on: 2009/1/1 21:26
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Re: Firearms Training
Village Old Timer
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Quote:

Excellent essay. While I'd bet that the percentage (not raw numbers, but percentage) of Bujinkan practitioners who can legally carry a firearm is pretty small, with us there are a lot of other options for deadly force. . .so these are things which, in my opinion, everyone should think about.

Regarding establishing one's personal Rules of Engagement, Jack Hoban has what I think are some relevant comments in the latter part of his New Year's Message for 2009:

Quote:
The great moral values, such as truth, freedom, charity, honor, courage, commitment, etc. have one thing in common – when they are functioning correctly, they are all life-protecting.

But they are still relative values. Our relative moral values must be constantly examined to ensure that they are always performing their life-protecting mission. For example, courage can become foolish martyrdom; commitment can become irrational fanaticism; honor can become self-righteousness, conceit, and disrespect for others. As relative moral values they must always remain grounded in the Life Value.

Ethics are moral values in action. It starts in the school yard. Most everybody knows that the bully is wrong – that's morality. But only a few will stand up to protect the one getting bullied – that's ethics. Ethics are moral-physical. Moral people may want to step up and do the right thing, but they often lack the physical courage and skills. Martial arts gives them the necessary ability and confidence. And that is why Ethical Warrior training includes – and must include – martial arts.

Warriors protect life, even at risk of their own. And they kill only if necessary to protect life. Respect for the Dual Life Value sets us apart from those who may appear "moral" within in the context of their own environment or culture, but who do not respect the lives of others outside their own "in" group.

(http://www.livingvalues.com/theme2009.html)

Posted on: 2009/1/2 5:00
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Dale Seago
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