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Re: Buji Rules?
Villager
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From Abbotsford, BC Canada
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My Japanese manners are surely atrocious, but I always try to do as best I can. It is my inderstanding that their is a common difficulty on the topic of "permission" between the West and the Japanese cultures.

In the West we look to the rulebook - if a thing is not proscribed we take that as meaning it permissable to do that thing. However, in Japan one must ask for permission and usually in a very indirect way so as not to come across as rude or obtuse. To the point, I have been told it would come out as "Sensei, I have heard that So and So does some interesting training what do you think about that?" then if you teacher thinks that this person is good for you to train with, they will say so. If not, they may rather indicate some other training avenues for you, without ever explicitly condemning the other teacher (as that too would be rude).

My shihan has told me, specifically. "You cannot train with the Jinnenkan or Genbukan if you are in the Bujinkan".

We don't get to pick the rules, its not our art, its Soke's.

YMMV

Chris

Posted on: 2008/12/16 9:49
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Christopher Taylor
Bujinkan Taka-Seigi Dojo Abbotsford (BC) Canada
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Re: Buji Rules?
Villager
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Well said Mr Taylor.
Sounds like your teacher heard it from the Soke when he announced it at Ayase.

Mike

Posted on: 2008/12/16 11:52
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Re: Buji Rules?
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I think the issue is not whether we in the Bujinkan can train with those X-Kans, but rather if they can train with us...

Posted on: 2008/12/16 12:23
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Darren Dumas

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, or in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. ~ Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Buji Rules?
Villager
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apply the logic intrinsic to the stated rule...

Posted on: 2008/12/16 12:35
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Re: Buji Rules?
Cant Stay Offline
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I would not say that you should EVER interpret Sensei's kindness as permissiveness. He may forgive our mistakes but we still are known for what we do. Uri, do not ever interpret Sensei's willingness to forgive as him not caring or giving permission. We are still held responsible.

Posted on: 2008/12/16 14:03
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Ed Martin aka Papa-san
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Re: Buji Rules?
村長 :: Sonchou
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Quote:

noname wrote:
Quote:

JanRa wrote:
Quote:

noname wrote:
Takamatsu sensei trained under more than one master.

Hatsumi sensei trained under more than one master.


....what does this tell us?


Watch the Quest DVD about Takamatsu Sensei....




I think I know what you are talking about.....when Hatsumi sensei says that he felt that all his time with other teachers was wasted......What if Hatsumi sensei had said to himself: "Out of respect for my other teachers I will not go out and train with this Mr. Takamatsu." ?........to me that sort of puts things in a new light......



No new light. He chose one teacher... I don't waiste time with the what if games... chaos makes it too complicated.

Quote:

Quote:

Nodakko wrote:

If you train in the Bujinkan you are not allowed to train in the Jinenkan at all. If you feel you have the "right" to train with both you don't.



Says who? You?


Says any bujinkan member living in Japan or travelling there regularly.

Take care,

Jan

Posted on: 2008/12/16 15:12
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Jan Ramboer
Bujinkan Dojo Brussels

‘It is only when the eyes and the brain get exhausted that there are no lies and you can get the truth’ Thomas Hirschhorn
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Re: Buji Rules?
Permanent Village Fixture
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Quote:

Yukkuri mo wrote:

We don't get to pick the rules, its not our art, its Soke's.



From: http://www.bujinkan.com/guidelines.htm

"A physician's examination report shall be required. Specifically, individuals with mental illness, drug addiction, or mental instability shall be barred from joining. The necessity of such a report concerns individuals who may present a danger to others, for example, those with infectious diseases or illnesses, individuals with clinically abnormal personalities or physiology, and individuals lacking self-control."

" Those not upholding the above-mentioned guidelines shall be forced out of the Bujinkan."

What percentage of practitioners would someone guess have had this done? Or what percentage of dojo follow this rule?
And how many people have been "forced out" because of it?

Since we are talking about "rules"

Posted on: 2008/12/16 16:00
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Re: Buji Rules?
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On the rules, and accepting them - don't know how this is handled everywhere else, but the way I do it is that the rules are given for acceptation upon every renewal of Honbu membership (this moment coming up again in a couple of weeks).

And there have been times when a person thinking of joining the Bujinkan has spoken out about an issue noted in the rules, and decided not to join, after all.

Also, I have been forced to tell people that they no longer are welcome to the training due to a "rules violation" after finding out about such a situation

I see it as our (Shidôshi-kai members) responsibility/honour to uphold/enforce the rules set by the Honbu.

Posted on: 2008/12/16 17:21
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Ari Julku
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(Bujinkan Budōka since 1985)
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Re: Buji Rules?
Village Old Timer
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From San Francisco, California, USA
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Quote:

What percentage of practitioners would someone guess have had this done? Or what percentage of dojo follow this rule?
And how many people have been "forced out" because of it?


I don't know about anyone "forced out", but I've barred people from joining my dojo on the basis of -- for example -- a psychiatric diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia.

Posted on: 2008/12/16 22:57
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Dale Seago
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Re: Buji Rules?
Permanent Village Fixture
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Quote:

JanRa wrote:
Quote:

noname wrote:
Quote:

JanRa wrote:
Quote:

noname wrote:
Takamatsu sensei trained under more than one master.

Hatsumi sensei trained under more than one master.


....what does this tell us?


Watch the Quest DVD about Takamatsu Sensei....




I think I know what you are talking about.....when Hatsumi sensei says that he felt that all his time with other teachers was wasted......What if Hatsumi sensei had said to himself: "Out of respect for my other teachers I will not go out and train with this Mr. Takamatsu." ?........to me that sort of puts things in a new light......



No new light. He chose one teacher... I don't waiste time with the what if games... chaos makes it too complicated.



He chose one teacher after having trained with many teachers.



Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Nodakko wrote:

If you train in the Bujinkan you are not allowed to train in the Jinenkan at all. If you feel you have the "right" to train with both you don't.



Says who? You?


Says any bujinkan member living in Japan or travelling there regularly.

Take care,

Jan



Why do you suppose that is?

Posted on: 2008/12/17 5:38
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......Samuel Zavaletta

Please be careful not to have preconceptions, and to always remember the idea of truth-and-falsehood.
-- Hatsum
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