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Re: Dojo websites
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One must always be careful of saying "it is the official ----" in regards to the Bujinkan and dojos in the Bujinkan. It can possibly be AN offical list but that would depend on who was the individual responsible for it and his/her standing within the Bujinkan and with Dr Hatsumi. One of the best ways is to learn about the one setting up the list and finding out if they have a personal agenda or not. Many do make lists to just help those looking, but it is also possible that a list can be made to exclude those who aren't with "their" group. That is a really bad idea.

Posted on: 2009/2/27 23:59
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Ed Martin aka Papa-san
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Re: Dojo websites
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I think Ed makes a few good points here and would just add these things:

- Most lists I've seen like this usually acknowledge their limitations, pointing out that it's not exhaustive, and that many legit dojo exist which aren't on there - instead of proclaiming to be THE list (hence my self-important comment before).

- In reply to Matt's comment about the t-shirts, they do in fairness say "Proceeds from these sales keep us going and also result in share payment(s) to Soke and the Bujinkan." So I suppose it's up to people to take that as they will.

- I wouldn't like to vilify too much someone with a nice intention who just happened to choose their words poorly, because I for one know I do that myself sometimes too. The important thing is to recognise that, correct it and not to continue misrepresenting things...

- Ed's note to check the standing of the people behind it is a good one I think. However, should it then turn out that the one making the misleading statement is actually in good standing then it becomes a bit more problematic doesn't it? Hence my other previous comment about the big responsibility on people to pass things on correctly. Even more so for people with 'status' because people believe what they say.

Sincerely

Posted on: 2009/2/28 3:44
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warren
Bujinkan Dojo Takuma
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Re: Dojo websites
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The original post was a simple request from WIN. However the thread had shifted into a different direction. Please consider about what you write online and what type of impact it will make. It is bad when people speak ill of those who are considered as seniors. Please consider the type of example you are setting for your pears and others. You don't have to like someone or train with them but you do have to respect the fact that they represent the Bujinkan and Soke. Mannerism and etiquettes are very important in our Budo and as such take precedent over many things.

There may or may not be valid concerns about what someone does but this has to be dealt with differently.

Sincerely,

Posted on: 2009/3/1 2:37
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Eduard Divantman
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Re: Dojo websites
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Quote:

bufuikan wrote:
Please consider about what you write online and what type of impact it will make.


This advice also goes to what people write on their websites. If I put crap up on my site, people should call me out on it.

Quote:
It is bad when people speak ill of those who are considered as seniors. Please consider the type of example you are setting for your peers and others.


I've known Phil for over 20 years, so I'm not saying anything online I wouldn't say personally.

Quote:
You don't have to like someone or train with them but you do have to respect the fact that they represent the Bujinkan and Soke.


If I believe that someone is misrepresenting their intentions (and I don't think the Onibujin people are doing it purposefully), then they are doing a poor job of representing the Bujinkan and Soke, whether they are senior or not. If I write that my website is "the official website for NYC training," everybody would be perfectly within their rights to call me out on it.

Many people have personal conversations with Soke or the shihan that they believe gives them EXCLUSIVE license to do things. I've yet to see any of those beliefs actually pan out.

I know there are other directories that require shidoshikai membership cards in order to be listed, that claim direction from such-and-such shihan, etc. When an actual Hombu administrator comes on and says, "Soke says this directory is the official directory of the Bujinkan," then I'll believe it. From a ninpo perspective, treating every rumor as gospel because it comes from a senior person is not very smart. How we choose to deal with these issues is an individual matter.

Posted on: 2009/3/2 13:01
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Jeff Christian
Muzosa Bujinkan Dojo of NYC
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Re: Dojo websites
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Well said Jeff!! We are always and must always be responsible for our own actions and choices.

Posted on: 2009/3/2 13:20
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Ed Martin aka Papa-san
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Re: Dojo websites
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Yes, exactly Jeff!

Sincerely,

Posted on: 2009/3/2 22:15
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warren
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