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Another Ninjutsu organization in South America?
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Does anybody here know something about them?

http://www.hontaisaigaryu.org/index.php?id=1

It's just for curiosity

Posted on: 2009/3/3 17:29
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Re: Another Ninjutsu organization in South America?
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Anyone ever get any information on these people? I'm curious too.

Posted on: 2009/4/11 21:34
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Ed Martin aka Papa-san
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Re: Another Ninjutsu organization in South America?
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Hi Papa San,

Now in Colombia the people talk about "Koga Ryu Ninjutsu" under "Kawakami Sensei", they are getting a lot of students and actually I have received several emails where my buyus ask me for info. about this people, of course is not so many things to say yet about them, the most recently info. I have received is that their master, Kawakami, is comming into the NJ area for a seminar.

Here is the website of this people in Colombia (Spanish of course :) ):
http://www.juanhombre.com/ninjutsu/COLOMBIA/COLOMBIA/COMETIDO.htm

Here is the info. about the seminar in NJ:
http://www.kogasociety.com/news.htm

Regards,

Posted on: 2009/4/13 6:31
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Luis F. Hernandez
Passaic Bujinkan Buyu
Tel. +1 (609) 379-BUYU (2898)
Fax. (484) 727-0538

Click here for Passaic Bujinkan Buyu website
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Re: Another Ninjutsu organization in South America?
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Thanks! I'll look at those sites. I had thought that most people now recognized that the "Koga" ninjutsu was a fraud. Phillip Hevener's book on "The Last Koga Ninja" about Fujita Seiko is very clear on how he himself wrote that he would not pass his ninjutsu art on. It still seems that there are those who will believe without ever checking on the validity of what they are told.

Posted on: 2009/4/13 9:02
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Ed Martin aka Papa-san
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Re: Another Ninjutsu organization in South America?
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The worst part is they are talking in the wrong way about Bujinkan, they are taking advantage of the bad publicity we have had in some South American countries, I believe we have to do something in order to clarify this particular point over there, I'm trying to do as much as I can but is not enough, we can probably use different publications our buyus are promoting, if you have any idea and if I can help in some way please do not hesitate to contact me.

Regards,

Posted on: 2009/4/13 9:48
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Luis F. Hernandez
Passaic Bujinkan Buyu
Tel. +1 (609) 379-BUYU (2898)
Fax. (484) 727-0538

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Re: Another Ninjutsu organization in South America?
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Quote:

Here is the website of this people in Colombia (Spanish of course :) ):
http://www.juanhombre.com/ninjutsu/COLOMBIA/COLOMBIA/COMETIDO.htm


Gee this Juan Hombre is sooo mad at the Bujinkan that I'm totally shocked. At least that's what you can read between the lines.

If he wants to become the first and true european ninja, fine by me but at least get the facts straight. We aren't a ninja school, that's why we study "Budô Taijutsu" and that's why I don't like people calling us ninja (as students) or ninjutsu (as a martial art).

If you don't like what we train, go out, the doors are open to enter and to leave the organization but at least have the education not to call names or those sort of things. Its sad.

This makes me want to train more and more, not to prove him wrong but this is an art that I love and enjoy as it is.

Posted on: 2009/4/13 10:05
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Re: Another Ninjutsu organization in South America?
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Quote:

Papa-san wrote:
It still seems that there are those who will believe without ever checking on the validity of what they are told.


Well So, let them believe whatever they want to. They go down their path we will go down ours.

Posted on: 2009/4/13 10:07
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Darryl Ingalls
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Re: Another Ninjutsu organization in South America?
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Quote:
Papa-san wrote:

Thanks! I'll look at those sites. I had thought that most people now recognized that the "Koga" ninjutsu was a fraud. Phillip Hevener's book on "The Last Koga Ninja" about Fujita Seiko is very clear on how he himself wrote that he would not pass his ninjutsu art on. It still seems that there are those who will believe without ever checking on the validity of what they are told.


Playing devil's advocate here. Fujiko Seiko's claims were also full of holes. There wasn't enough proof to show he was a Koka ninja. If you look into Mr. Kawakami's background, his credibility with ninjutsu maybe more verifable than the Bujinkan's. I don't really know about those claiming to be his students.

One reason for the name change to Budo Taijutsu was to get away from the negative association with ninjutsu. The second was because of the difficulties involved with verifying the Ninjutsu lineage. The Genbukan, I believe also went through this transformation. They couldn't find proof so now promotes those schools that are easily confirmed. The Bujinkan still hasn't proven that Takamatsu's grandfather existed. Without him and his training background Takamatsu sensei can be grouped in with those being criticized. Using his verified skills in Kukishin, Takagi, Shinden, Chinese schools (no one know which ones), some ninjutsu documents and piecemealing them he could have made Togakure ryu. Amatsu Tatara and the Kuki family scrolls were filled with tons of cool stuff. (Ex. Hira shuriken/Teppan, kyogetsu shoge) He also collected scrolls like Hatsumi sensei. Takamatsu sensei past out several Kukishin, Takagi and Shinden scrolls. It is common knowledge he piecemealed new schools together for students. Giving different students different info. Renaming schools, taken out parts, putting in parts from other schools. Kukishinden within the Bujinkan is the perfect example.

Quote:
It still seems that there are those who will believe without ever checking on the validity of what they are told.


Bujinkan members should tidy up their own home first before condemning others. This statement can apply to all the Kans as well. My point is: You can't simply believe something was true because they were the first one's to introduce it to the public.

Posted on: 2009/4/13 15:18
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Re: Another Ninjutsu organization in South America?
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Well Jimmy one does not "just believe because they were the first to introduce the public to ...." It is valid to make your own evaluation of the person in question, and it is valid to see the documents he has and make a decision on those things. It is also valid to evaluate the effectiveness of what he shows. Genbukan came from the Bujinkan via Dr Hatsumi to his cousin no matter how much Tanemura wishes to deny that fact. Jinnenkan did come from Dr Hatsumi to Manaka san which he readily confirms. Like I have said many times, you make your choices and YOU get to live with the results. A student is responsible for the teacher they choose. If they choose a lie it is their problem. The effectiveness of what we do in the Bujinkan is its own validation.

Posted on: 2009/4/13 21:59
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Ed Martin aka Papa-san
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Re: Another Ninjutsu organization in South America?
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Quote:

jwills79 wrote:
(...)
The Bujinkan still hasn't proven that Takamatsu's grandfather existed.


that is funny

mn

Posted on: 2009/4/14 2:54
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Mariusz
San Francisco Bujinkan Dojo
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