Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
Socialize
 

Recent Topics
Topic Replies Last Post
Wedding gift... can someone help me to translate it? 6 2018/6/30 20:50
Barga18
Aomori-Ken 0 2018/6/19 10:27
hanzo-tou
Certificates 0 2018/5/8 4:34
schistkicker
Home Project: Shadowbox 3 2018/4/25 21:44
roufus
Ichiba 0 2018/2/21 1:18
Dpinga

Browsing this Thread:   1 Anonymous Users



(1) 2 3 4 ... 11 »


Is Bujinkan’s credibility eroding?
Frequent Visitor
Joined:
2004/2/24 0:30
From Sweden
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 23
Offline
Hi Villagers

During 2009 I have observed some tendencies that concerns me. Spending time on certain websites has led me to the conclusion that Bujinkans is seen as a rather unserious and poor martial art by a disturbingly large amount of people. Now, we can of course ask ourselves “is this a problem?”. From certain points of view, one could argue that we shouldn’t care about what people say about us on the internet. That we should focus on the training and not waste time being preoccupied with the opinion of others. There is wisdom in such advice. Not only is it hopeless to try to make everybody love you, it won’t make you the tiniest bit better budoka. In fact, my first teacher (who I still consider my sensei) indicated that performance anxiety and being concerned with making an impression are enemies to good development in taijutsu.

On the other hand, Internet is an extremely powerful thing. For instance, when Dell suffered bad publicity by bloggers in 2006-2007 and failed to act on it they lost significant business, received a lot of bad will and the stock price eventually fell by about 50%. (see “What would Google do?” for more information.) For Bujinkan, is it possible that we at risk for slipping into being the ridicule of the martial arts world?

Personally I feel that it is a serious problem, not least because of the unjust disgrace it brings upon the Bujinkan and on those previous masters from which we inherited the art!

On the other hand, can we really blame people for misunderstanding the art and for thinking it sucks? Just watch the 100 or so videos at youtube, all but less than a handful really are bad, or looks bad. Even Sensei’s movements, even though we all think he is great, is likely very difficult for outsiders to appreciate as they don’t understand how difficult it is to accomplish so much with so small movement. (Actually, there are frequent comments suggesting that Sensei's ukes acts, pretends and throw themselves to the floor etc. Those who have been uke for Sensei of course have little doubt about the effectiveness of his technique…)

My point is, if people, even idiots, think Bujinkan sucks, is there really somebody else to blame than ourselves?

I would like to start a constructive discussion on this topic, as I believe the master before us deserve better. Please share your ideas regarding what is happening, why, what we can do about it, and other comments.

Please post your constructive and nonjudgmental thoughts!

Also, I apologize if anybody feel this is a too sensitive topic, or feel offended. However, I believe putting our heads in the sand is no good either...

Some examples on negativity regarding Bujinkan:
Youtube poster ”Bujinkant”, “Bujinkult” and “slapupchrist” (possibly one and the same person) appear to hold a personal grudge against the Bujinkan and are relentless in negative commenting and posting, usually in a rather immature manner. See some videos and comments:

Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu: Combat Martial Art?


Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu: Is the Bujinkan a Cult?

Bujinkan con

Bujinkan the art of holding out your arm


At Martial Arts Planet, a more nuanced discussion started by “deivu” simply states that a lot of people seem to hate Bujinkan but asks for an intelligent discussion regarding it.

Meanwhile, if you watch Bujinkan on the net and respond to criticism, I would like to encourage you to do so in a very mature manner, to (within reasonable limits) acknowledge critique and to respond with insightful and informative comments.

Kent Thorén, Sweden

Posted on: 2009/9/25 4:09
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Is Bujinkan’s credibility eroding?
Villager
Joined:
2009/4/18 21:51
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 51
Offline
There does not seem to be much we can do except try to be the best we can and not associate with those we don't think are doing the right thing.

Every so often there seems to be people that come along claiming to be trying to improve the quality of the Bujinkan overseas. They want everyone to follow them so as to keep up the good name of the Bujinkan.

In reality, none of them have any real ability in my book and their whole routine is a barely concealed attempt at a power grab.

There are folks that do just the bare minimum to set themselves up as a teacher of Bujinkan. They go to Japan maybe once, if even that, to say they have been there and maybe to take the fifth dan test in order to be a full teacher. Then they go home and do their own thing. What can we do about that?

Can we stop people more eager about setting themselves up as teachers than improving their Bunjikan skills from posting their silly videos on youtube?

Can we stop people from teaching via video and the internet?

These are the folks that seem to be getting the most flack. They do reflect badly on everyone that just try their best. But there does not seem to be any cure that is not worse than the disease.

Posted on: 2009/9/25 5:28
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Is Bujinkan’s credibility eroding?
Permanent Village Fixture
Joined:
2003/8/2 2:44
From No. Cal., USA
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 358
Offline
Hello Mr. Thoren,
Don's right. Do your best, don't associate with people you think are idiots, and cultivate strong personal relationships with people of quality.

Posted on: 2009/9/25 10:51
_________________
Pete Lohstroh
A man who wears fur shouldn't spit on a man who wears suede.
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Is Bujinkan’s credibility eroding?
Active Kutakian
Joined:
2008/6/12 17:02
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 134
Offline
I think it is a big mistake to shut yourself down to only positive opinions.

There are a handful of young guys on the internet with a lot of time on their hands who expend their time and energy on criticising or attacking the Bujinkan. I can only think that there are a lot more important things you could be spending your time on.

There are a lot of things you can spend your time, energy and money on. If you are spending this on training in the Bujinkan then of course you need to access the positives and negatives of it – and if your goals are better served elsewhere. Looking at informed criticism is an important part of this.

As for me there are some criticisms I agree with but can do nothing about, I just have to accept these things. There is no point in dwelling on it. Some criticisms I agree with and therefore do some things a little differently.

I have found the Bujinkan to be a huge animal with many different ways, points of view and types of training within it. Within my own little sphere of training I’m happy.

You have to access your own goals in the martial arts to know if the Bujinkan fulfils them. I’ve seen criticism that the Bujinkan isn’t koryu budo / kobudo enough and is too modernist. I’ve also seen criticism that the Bujinkan is too stuck in old forms and kata and isn’t modernist enough. These two criticisms are of course impossible to reconcile.

Posted on: 2009/9/25 17:11
_________________
Duncan Mitchell
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Is Bujinkan’s credibility eroding?
Villager
Joined:
2005/11/4 17:17
From Munich / Germany
Group:
師導士会 :: Shidoshikai
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 65
Offline
I have also noticed criticisms as described above all over the world and some possible causes have already been mentioned above.

One point that caught my attention - in particular in message board discussions - is that in many cases, people that have been training in the Bujinkan for a limited period of time are the ones who are triggering negative threads on our art and they are the ones who keep them "alive", I get the impression that they are acting this way as revenge.

I would lie if I would state that I do not care about such criticisms, but meanwhile, I see all of this much more relaxed than I used to. I pretty much become aware that everyone of us has to walk his / her own paths and that "external influences" (no matter if positive or negative) do not really matter... this sometimes may sound like "warrior romance" but I believe that this is the way at least I have to go - also in order to cope with videos / discussions linked above.

Just my 2 cents...

Posted on: 2009/9/25 17:28
_________________
Regards,

Stefan Filus
Bujinkan Sakura Dojo Munich / Germany
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Is Bujinkan’s credibility eroding?
Frequent Visitor
Joined:
2004/2/24 0:30
From Sweden
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 23
Offline
Thanks for your comments!

At this point I need to clairfy that it is not that I personally have a problem with critisism or that I think we should be particularly concerned with the negativity of these handful noisy individuals as such.

However, we need also to consider that people form their opinions (their "knowledge") about something based on the clues that they can find in their environment (the only possible way to learn actually). So it is not the critical handful that concerns me, but the tens of thousands they reach through the web, and the dousands of people they talk to in turn.

For example, a young person may see some (more or less) unfounded negative remarks on the Bujinkan on the net. Decide not to visit the local dojo, and miss out on an terrific budo experience that could have enriched his/her life. In fact, it could happen that it was a even potential great future soke that we lost in this hypothetical scenario!

I know that just the other day I decided not to accept an offer from an Internet operator because of critisism I found on the web. It is in these sensitive moments, when we consider differnt alternatives and have almost no knowledge about them, that Internet critisism is so harmful. And everybody starts here, so it would do little good to dismiss these clue-seeking people as irrelevant.

IF we should take on students, we want those who are talented and motivated, right? What do they see when they look for budo-training options?

I hope this clarifies my meaning. Please keep posting thoughts!

Posted on: 2009/9/25 18:02
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Is Bujinkan’s credibility eroding?
Frequent Visitor
Joined:
2004/2/24 0:30
From Sweden
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 23
Offline
Good points Don!

I think you are absolutely right in that we should keep doing our best and strive to work with people of quality. Not only is it best for our own development, actual quality and seriousness in our training is the best way to do Bujinkan justice, in my opinion.

You are also right that we cant really stop people, I am aware of that, but there are other things that could be done IF we think something should be done. Personally I am not sure yet, thats why I started this thread.

Thanks

Posted on: 2009/9/25 18:14
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Is Bujinkan’s credibility eroding?
Villager
Joined:
2005/11/4 17:17
From Munich / Germany
Group:
師導士会 :: Shidoshikai
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 65
Offline
I doubt that anything could be done! People in general tend to believe in negativity rather than positivity - so: if there are negative aspect floating around on the Internet, what could be done? Yes - we could try to "publish" a positive view of the Bujinkan, but who would believe it, unless people gear up and go to a dojo? Nobody... and it would just look like a defensive action.

The ones who are really interested just show up for training - the rest not.

I agree that it is sad if talented and interested people do not give it a try because of the critics on the net, but I think that's the reality of the Internet...

.

Posted on: 2009/9/25 18:49
_________________
Regards,

Stefan Filus
Bujinkan Sakura Dojo Munich / Germany
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Is Bujinkan’s credibility eroding?
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2005/12/1 16:49
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 181
Offline
Dear fellow Budokas,

Times change and today people from all over the world can train and/or access information on the Ryu-ha of the bujinkan (some of which were closely guarded from outsiders in older times). Today, being part of the bujinkan and learning pieces of information and a few moves is not the same as being an uchi-deshi (close student) of the master. The way things are today we get practitioners with a very wide range of knowledge and ability. It is no surprise that some do not make a good impression. There are few rules, no competitions and no board of judges to decide what is right or wrong. Soke decides and we can only accept this.

We who have trained for a few years all know that misinformation and misunderstandings have been (and are) common in the bujinkan. Everything from stories about straight swords, the element theory to gikan ryu kata to more subtle misunderstanding as to how kata are performed...the list can be made very long.

Because of this it is very easy to pick information form the net and present it so all, even those not training our style, can see the lack quality and understanding of fighting. There are hundreds of clips out with "teachers" that lack even basic things like good kamae, correct distances, et cetera. There are also many clips of people doing Soke-like henka, something one could discuss the meaning of training in and especially in putting on youtube (if you are not Soke).

Im sure we can not stop this trend but we can try to be more "solid". If one puts up some quasi strange stuff, write clearly so people dont get the impression that this is "official" bujinkan style. Something like "my interpretation" or "playing" or "freely testing" "would be suitable. Putting up something "official" I think one should always be willing to back it up, for example invite people who complain to come down and have a friendly fight with you. For the long post, gomenasai!

Best regards / Skuggvarg

Posted on: 2009/9/25 19:04
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Is Bujinkan’s credibility eroding?
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2007/5/5 18:02
From South East UK
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 221
Offline
Finding a decent teacher used to be like opening a small tin to look for a needle or pin, now it is like looking for the same items in a haystack.

I'm sure Soke and the Shihan know what they are doing, but I doubt if I will ever understand it.

Just tell people you do jujutsu, as technically you won't be lying, but at the same time you can be proud to state that you practice an art that is at least respected in the martial arts and wider comunity (largely thanks to the Brasilians rather than the Japanese).

Taijutsu requires too much explanation and sounds too much like Thai Boxing to the uninitiated, and anything with 'nin' in just sticks in my throat for fear of ridicule, not least because I am 18 stone and do not reflect most peoples idea of what a ninja should look like.

Posted on: 2009/9/25 19:04
_________________
Stop, take a deep breath, and everybody say "Auuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmnnnnn".
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer



(1) 2 3 4 ... 11 »




[Advanced Search]


Today's Sponsor